--

Hungary

wow - an honest politician. What happened there?

imagine the shrub saying some shit like that ...
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 3:35am
WTF link?
Permalink Send private email Locutus of Borg 
September 19th, 2006 4:19am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5358546.stm

or the front page ..
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 4:20am
Mr Gyurcsany's comments, which sparked the violence, were heard in a tape of a meeting he had with his MPs a few weeks after April's election, and leaked to local media on Sunday.

In excerpts broadcast on state radio, Mr Gyurcsany says harsh economic reforms are needed.

"There is not much choice. There is not, because we screwed up. Not a little, a lot. No European country has done something as boneheaded as we have.

"Evidently, we lied throughout the last year-and-a-half, two years... You cannot quote any significant government measure we can be proud of, other than at the end we managed to bring the government back from the brink. Nothing."

In a speech sprinkled with obscenities, Mr Gyurcsany says: "We lied in the morning, we lied in the evening."
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 4:21am
The Wow bit for Americans should be not the fact that the PM fucked up, nor that the public found out, but that the public is actually doing something about it.

The US is in dire need of that armed uprising which you're supposed to have all those guns for.
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
September 19th, 2006 7:25am
yup. it needs something like this.
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 7:34am
Apparently Hungary has an impotent government.

I wonder if the EU will have anything to say.

There will be a meeting between Chancello. Merkel and the Hungarian PM. Would Mrs. Merkel cancel this meeting with a liar?
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 8:21am
it seems that EU pressure on the economy (more taxes, less benefits) led to this outburst, indirectly.
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 8:25am
The EU needs stability. To ensure this stability, the EU needs more control over the member states. This situation is exceptional.

No other government in the history admitted it did not do a thing for a long period of time.

Does the EU trust in this government? Do the Hungarian people trust in their leaders?
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 8:28am
"it seems that EU pressure on the economy (more taxes, less benefits) led to this outburst, indirectly."

The EU does not regulate taxes nor benefits. It includes countries with supernaturally liberal tax systems (Estonia) and countries with massive benefits (Sweden).

"Does the EU trust in this government?"

Moot point, they're stuck with it.

"Do the Hungarian people trust in their leaders?"

Obviously not, if they're rioting...
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
September 19th, 2006 8:35am
"Does the EU trust in this government?
Moot point, they're stuck with it. "

The EU easily could pressure the hungarian government for change. The tax burden is extremely high. Squeezing more out from the people helps neither Hungary nor the EU.


Just as an example: the VAT on basic food is I think 20% vs. 0% in California. Income tax is higher than 50% vs. about 25% in Estonia
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 8:47am
unfortunately the story on bbc website where I picked up that tidbit has altered ...
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 8:55am
In what direction?
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 9:00am
just I couldn't find the ref to EU pressure on Humgary to raise taxes/reduce benefits.
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 9:02am
"Armed uprising"?  What kind of talk is that?

And being Estonian, you're probably not aware, but most of our "privately armed" people tend to be those who APPROVE of the current destruction of civil rights.

Liberals and moderates don't tend to resort to violence to get their point across.  You're preaching to the wrong choir with that one.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
September 19th, 2006 9:07am
""Armed uprising"?  What kind of talk is that?"

The talk that's supposed to be near & dear to every red-blooded American, at the core of your values, and protected by your Constitution.

"And being Estonian, you're probably not aware, but most of our "privately armed" people tend to be those who APPROVE of the current destruction of civil rights."

I'm aware of this, and it's infuriating.

"Liberals and moderates don't tend to resort to violence to get their point across.  You're preaching to the wrong choir with that one."

Radical liberals are perfectly capable of violence, thank you. (See Black Panthers et al.)
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
September 19th, 2006 9:25am
Oh, I entirely agree with your points, that LOTS of action is needed -- Civil Disobedience, and Passive Resistance, and a Democrat leader who can espouse a clear position.

It was merely the implementation detail I was objecting to.  "Armed insurrection" does NOT tend to be a 'correcting' influence.  That's like saying you want to move a wall in your house, so you burn the whole thing down.

Sounds like Hungary has lacked a few checks-and-balances to prevent this sort of thing -- or detect it early and often.  Just as the USA now has a government in place that sees checks-and-balances as a deterrent to their "protecting us from terrorism".
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
September 19th, 2006 9:46am
The freedom in the USA is deteriorating. US citizens will eventually wake up and change direction most likely not by violence but the rights given by the Constitution.
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 9:48am
The scary thing in Hungary is the ruling party and its coalition partner fully trusts their leaders.

Their leader is admittedly a LIAR.

The trust in a LIAR brings chaos, uncertinity and destruction.

(The fact is he acknowledged the members of his party are also liars. He is qualified to make such a statement)
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 9:53am
not much different to other places though - except that he came clean, right?
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 9:56am
""Armed insurrection" does NOT tend to be a 'correcting' influence. "

The armed bit is in relation to America's gun obsession. The insurrection bit has done wonders for Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Belarus looks set to be next.

"The freedom in the USA is deteriorating."

Is? It's done.

"US citizens will eventually wake up and change direction most likely not by violence but the rights given by the Constitution."

Which rights, exactly?

"The trust in a LIAR brings chaos, uncertinity and destruction."

Politicians are by definition liars. This one just got caught. FWIW in my opinion they'd do better to keep this guy, who's not going to get re-elected and knows what's fucked, so he can spend the rest of the term implementing necessary but unpopular measures. Anyone that unseats him now, will be pandering to the hoi polloi, and fuck the long term.
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
September 19th, 2006 10:09am
"not much different to other places though - except that he came clean, right?"

The prime minister would resign in a true democracy.
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 10:09am
"except that he came clean, right?"

It's not clear who leaked that tape to the press, but he sure as hell didn't come out and say it himself.
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
September 19th, 2006 10:09am
according to the earlier article which I can not now find, there was a lot of speculation that he allowed it to be leaked. The text appeared on his blog, was one thing.
Permalink $-- 
September 19th, 2006 10:12am
Why does Hungary even need a national government at all? Get rid of it. It's not like they're being threatened by invasion from Slovakia, those Polish twins, or that Ukranian woman with the peasant hairdo.
Permalink Send private email just me 
September 19th, 2006 10:21am
"The prime minister would resign in a true democracy."

Name a true democracy. ;)

If the PM leaked it, more power to him. He's sacrificed his career to fix his country. Pulled a Jimmy Carter, if you will.
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
September 19th, 2006 10:22am
"Name a true democracy. ;) "

You won this one :-)

"He's sacrificed his career to fix his country."
Do you believe a liar whose only accomplishment during his ruling was to "pull out his party from the deep shit (sic!) and win the election"?
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 10:28am
"Name a true democracy"

Easy: Appenzell Innerrhoden and Glarus.
Permalink Send private email a cynic writes... 
September 19th, 2006 10:45am
Latest news: The European People's Party urges the PM to resign.

http://www.epp.eu/
Permalink Flying U-Boat 
September 19th, 2006 10:48am

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other topics: September, 2006 Other topics: September, 2006 Recent topics Recent topics