I SWEAR TO FUCKING CHRIST I WILL TEAR THIS FORUM DOWN IN A RAIN OF BLOOD AND RAGE UNLESS THE PERSON WHO HAS STOLEN THE CODE FOR THE DANCING BANANA POPUP RETURNS IT _*IMMEDIATELY*_

Right now, I am very glad that my firefox is set to ignore animation, marquees, flash and what ever else it is that you have tossed into that vomit looking mush.

Watch it, Rock.  You'll get modded and banned.  You're like the chinese dude in front of the tank right now.  Run!

"the chinese dude in front of the tank"

That guy is my all time hero!

“The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.”

Yeah, whatever, but

Sometimes you have to make a statement.
Sometimes you have to take a stand.
Sometimes you have to say:
"I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!"

Sometimes somebody has got to go out there and face the tanks.
When it comes to that I hope I have the guts to do so, and when that day comes and you sit safe at home behind your TV you're more than welcome to call me immature.

19.

No what's going to go down is the mature people are out there changing the world through service and commerce. Making world changing, world improving decisions in business and in life. The tanks aren't coming.  This is the way the world goes, not with a bang but with a whimper.  Even if by some wild chance the tanks did come, you and I would be right here in front the CRT tube talking CoT.

uhh...guys?  could we get back on topic?  my bananas?

wsv how about you not derail every serious conversation on CoT just cause you don't follow politics or philosophy?

You know what cpm? You're right and I hope you always will be but when the tanks came rolling onto tien-an-men (sp?) square, you wouldn't have been right.

And all the chinese could have picked up their stuff and said: "Oh too bad, the party's over" and NOTHING would ever change.
Somebody has to set stuff in motion.
Somebody has to do something overdramatic to get the attention of the cameras of the world.
Was the guy stupid? suicidal? an attention whore? who knows. But he became the symbol of the chinese resistance and he will be for decades. And he will be the inspiration for all those little people taking the little steps you mention.

..but..I..uhh...dammit....my bananas...

Oh, and CRT is sooooo 20th century.

Locutus, do you remember what happened in Tiananmen? The tanks rolled in and killed 2000 people.  The pro-democracy movement was shattered.  Political reform in China was massively set back.

The real hero of Tiananmen was Zhao Ziyang, General Secretary of the Communist Party of China, who took a sympathetic stance toward the students and cast the lone dissenting vote against imposing martial law.

Premier Li Peng, the "Butcher of Beijing," and Deng Xiaoping worked against Zhao to "restore order."  Zhao lost the power struggle and died in a Chinese prison in 2005.  Several dissidents were kept under house arrest to prevent them from attending his funeral.

Tiananmen wasn't a big leap forward for chinese democracy.  It was a colossal failure.  The tank man died (likely) in vain.

"do you remember what happened in Tiananmen?"

No I don't, and once again you are right in stating that the whole business there didn't directly result in much good.

Yet, I do remember the tank man. He inspires me and many others. I don't remember Zhao Ziyang and not many of the general public will.

Did he die in vain? In terms of immediate result, maybe.
But he became a symbol. His picture went across the globe and has become a synonym for the resistance of the apparently powerless against overwhelming opposition. And in that way his stupid action has done a lot. I don't even know his name. But he stands for the little guy who has had enough and decides to take stand.

And that's why he's my hero.

That's the problem right there.

Tiananmen Square was Zhao Ziyang versus the communist party. All people can remember is the pictures CBS showed them to sell breakfast cereal ads.

Zhao Ziyang is a hero and a giant among men who paid with 15 years of his life for his bold attempt to change the world. Tankboy is just an amped up youth who should have gone home and lived to fight another day.

All sizzle and no steak, you are.

A.  Lorena Bobbitt.

B.  Have you looked in your ears yet?  That's where I tend to stuff people's bananas.

good christ. this place is a sewer.

Yes, but who will remember Zhao Ziyang if not for the tank man? I'm not disputing anything you say.

I'm saying that if a little guy stands up against an army, that is much more of an inspiration for others (me). Because we can relate. It also much more interesting for CNN camera's and as such a very good way of making the world aware of what is going on.
Whatever great things Zhao has done behind the scenes, it would never been such a world event if not for the ordinary people on the square and tank man in perticular.

Oh, really?  What tipped you off?

I thought I was just trying to be clever.

Bananas?

Just curious. cpm, where are you from?

It was the all-caps that did it first, right?

Oh, and I really liked your quote up above.

The "MAD AS HELL" quote? I keep forgetting what movie it is from.

Network
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958/

Locutus,

You're right of course.  No students in the streets, no chance for Zhao to make his play.  Plus we can't discount the importance of symbols. In the end, that's all we've got.

I'm born, raised, and educated in the UK, but living in jolly old US of A these days.  Why?

You seem to know a lot about those events and to have some serious opinions about it.
What part of the world you come from might influence your views on the matter and give us some more background on your statements.

I'm dutch btw

I just happened to have read a book called The Tiananmen Papers. It is based on some documents describing the internal communist party conflict over the massacre.  They were smuggled out of China. Naturally, the chinese claim they are fakes.

I have a special affection for the Dutch. Not sure why. Everyone seems to like the Dutch, you know?

Aaah, that explains ;)
http://www.crazyontap.com/topic.php?TopicId=10733#133927

Are these "papers" available on-line?

"I don't remember Zhao Ziyang and not many of the general public will."

I think most Chinese over 30 years old will remember.

Do you remember him?

What are your thoughts Rick Zeng?

"Tiananmen Papers" google.

1st, 2nd, 5th link all good.