Sanding our assholes with 150 grit.

we're going crazy trying to find candidates

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060925/BUSINESS01/609250334

we might have to try something crazy ... like raising salaries!
Permalink cpm 
September 25th, 2006 11:26pm
I just read the article.

The one recent grad they bothered to interview says that the job market is saturated.

The branch manager of a tech staffing company told the reporter that they just lost another account when the company in question decided to send 13 jobs overseas.

All of the tech entrepeneurial types interviewed for the article have South Asian -sounding names (Sridevi, Sandeep).

Uhhhh... yeah ... why aren't people flocking to work in IT.

D'oh.
Permalink possibly maybe 
September 26th, 2006 12:44am
The full list of comments for that article is very interesting. It's a long long list of developers with degrees commenting that the job market is dead and the companies quoted in the article as 'desperate' for workers will not in actuality hiring americans at all.
Permalink John Smith 
September 26th, 2006 4:44am
I think the "aliveness" of the job market depends on what region of the country you're in.

We're hiring, but the problems we're facing are candidates without the experience[1,2] we need, and the usual problems of resume inflation and candidates misunderstanding what the position is.

The interesting thing is that of the last 5 candidates we interviewed, 3 of them had moved their families to the RTP area without a job offer in hand.


[1] We can find lots of people who are just "coders".  We're looking for people with design & UML experience, too.

[2] I think that anyone who just limits their knowledge to writing code is setting themselves up to be outsourced.  If you accept outsourcing as a fact (companies will *always* chase the lowest cost place to do business), the only way to stay employed is to move up the food chain to designer, architect, or project manager.
Permalink xampl 
September 26th, 2006 7:54am
xample

(1.) Where do later generations of designers, architects, and project managers come from once most of the current generation of "coders" either transition to those roles (and out of them) or get out of the business altogether?

(2.) What exactly is going to stop designer, architect, and pm roles from being outsourced in the near future?

I think that the answer to #2 is "Nothing, it's just a matter of time." and that #1 is quickly going to become a moot question.
Permalink possibly maybe 
September 26th, 2006 8:13am
What amazes me is that everyone wants you to have both design AND coding.

To me, if I'm doing design, on a management level, I don't want to code.  Pay me to design.  If you want me to do two jobs, you have to pay me.

This could be because I'm jaded and no longer a "go-getter."  To me, if I'm doing design and coding, if the project doesn't fit certain types, then there is no point doing that work as an employee.  I might as well "steal" the idea and walk away with it since I get to do all the work.

Yeah, you wouldn't hire someone like me.  I'm quite capable of doing both, but wouldn't do it for less than six figures.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
September 26th, 2006 12:03pm
"I'm quite capable of doing both, but wouldn't do it for less than six figures."

There are many many six figure tech jobs for you if you can code and manage.
Permalink cpm 
September 26th, 2006 12:05pm
"There are many many six figure tech jobs for you if you can code and manage."

I don't fit the culture in most of those places in Chicago.  I'm not willing to change myself to fit, either.  I would have to move back to San Francisco or Minneapolis.  Someday soon, that will happen.  Chicago is too backwards ass.  I could go right to San Fran and get just that job, no problems.

Here in Chicago, they'll ask me some stupid question nobody knows the answer to without looking in a reference, just to disqualify me.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
September 26th, 2006 12:56pm
Funny thing is, my boss is trying to get me to do that kind of work right now, without paying me.  So instead, I've asked for a bonus on the completed project.  So I get a percentage of everything sold that I touch.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
September 26th, 2006 12:57pm
And furthermore...I can never get these kinds of jobs in the door. I have to "prove I'm not an idiot" for a year, first.

Do that too many times, and you get burned out.  I'm on my last "prove myself" run.  After this, Fuck All, never again.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
September 26th, 2006 12:58pm
"So I get a percentage of everything sold that I touch."

NICE!!!!

You got this deal?  What's the %?
Permalink  
September 26th, 2006 2:00pm
Heh.  It isn't much--same as what the sales reps get, averages out to 10% or something.

I get nothing if I don't finish this bitch soon.  Sigh.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
September 26th, 2006 2:16pm
>> (1.) Where do later generations of designers, architects, and project managers come from once most of the current generation of "coders" either transition to those roles (and out of them) or get out of the business altogether?  <<

We're looking for experience.  Once we've found that we can't find people like we want, then we'll look for someone we can train.  The idea is you want someone who is productive within a month or two of their being hired.

Don't get me wrong -- I agree that for the long-term health of the software industry, you want people to apprentice, learn the trade, move up, etc.  But the firms, taken individually, don't care about that -- they care about *their* long-term health, preferably at the expense of the competition.  It's not my company, I'm not in charge.  :-(

>> (2.) What exactly is going to stop designer, architect, and pm roles from being outsourced in the near future?  <<

In some cases, nothing, you're right.  Perhaps acquiring these skills is merely staving off the inevitable.  So why not just give up now, and save the effort?

But I don't believe in such defeatist talk.  I think the American software developer is and will be the best in the world.  It's the American manager that needs sending to the reeducation camps.
Permalink xampl 
September 26th, 2006 3:10pm
Haha...

"There is a perception that you don't need a four-year degree to get an IT job, said Beth Hunter, the branch manager of the Robert Half office."

I find that particularly funny since A) I live/work in Nashville, B) I have no degree, and finally C) When I was job hunting, Robert Half was calling.

Perception truly is reality.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
September 27th, 2006 1:08pm
As tuition continues to inflate to astronomical levels, those institutions are going to shoot themselves in the foot.

Degrees won't be the easy-sort method to a pile of resumes for much longer.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
September 27th, 2006 1:10pm
Candidates are going to career colleges and tech schools because both give "real" experience far beyond more traditional academic education.

I think this goes further than IT. It's a symptom of everyone and their mother wanting experience.

Which isn't terrible. If I were hiring, I'd rather see experience. It is more odd to me that has ever been any different.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
September 27th, 2006 1:13pm

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