1. I accept that I am under the control of a higher power (Muppet).

Damn Atheistic Correlation is Not Causation

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200703/CUL20070307b.html
- Survey Finds Link Between Decline in Values, Waning Belief

<quote>
Lori Brown of the Atheist Coalition for America challenged the conclusions of the study, saying it incorrectly implied that if two things happen at the same time, then one must have caused the other.

"This shows how much misunderstanding there is of the morality of those of us who don't hold a God belief," Brown told Cybercast News Service . "If a person believes that this is the only life we have and this is the only world there is, then there will be great impetus to make it the best world possible.
</quote>

and I like this too:

<quote>
Ultimately, however, she said the country does need to return to God. "Morality is based in recognizing that there is a God that created the universe and that we are subject to him ... God's standard is supreme and as humans we are held accountable to that," Earll said.
</quote>

It's just that nobody acts that way, so I doubt they actually believe it.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 7th, 2007 4:19pm
That's pretty blanket.

I do wonder though if some people are really in what I'd consider a bad place when it comes to their theology.

I've heard comments like 'don't you think the world world be better if everyone behaved like x?' used as a justification for holding less than enlightened beliefs. Yet, to call them beliefs is spurious because they themselves don't 'believe' it. It is more, pretend like you believe it by practicing x.

Then you get these buffoons that insist on believing y, but hypocritically fail to practice anything of the sort.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
March 7th, 2007 5:11pm
"Morality is based in recognizing that there is a God that created the universe and that we are subject to him"

How about our standards of morality are based on a human understanding and refinement of what is best for us? The problem with the divine command theory is that it makes morality entirely subjective. Take murder, for example. We believe murder is wrong. Now putting ourselves in the shoes of a theist, we can say one of two things:

1 - Murder is wrong because it goes against God's character
2 - Murder goes against God's character because it is wrong

Only the first answer is consistent with divine morality. The problem is it doesn't tell us why murder violates God's character. It can't be because it is wrong, since we've already established that an action is not wrong until and unless it goes against God's character. Under the divine command theory, morality is totally arbitrary and cannot be objective.

Besides, the claims that decline in religion somehow causes a decline in values is moronic. If you look at the UN human development reports, the healthiest societies in the world are also among the most atheistic, as indicated by life expectancy, educational attainment, per capita income, gender equality, homicide rate, infant mortality, abortion rate, teen pregnancy rate, etc. I'm talking about countries like Norway, Australia, Sweden, Japan, Canada. Despite its uniqueness in its relatively high level of religiousness among nations with a high human development index in those reports, the US fares rather poorly on rates of homicide, abortion, etc. And within the US itself, the more religious red states fare poorly when compared to the more secular blue states.

Maybe Americans should stop worrying about God and start worrying about what is best for humans. There is simply no evidence that belief in God is a source of morality.
Permalink ... 
March 7th, 2007 9:20pm
> decline in values is moronic

It's an odd morality they have. Murder, slavery, poverty, war, etc are all with their values.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 7th, 2007 11:05pm
From the article:
CMI is a division of the Media Research Center, the parent organization of Cybercast News Service. Its mission is to "preserve and help restore America's culture, character, traditional values, and morals against the assault of the liberal media elite."

Uh-huh.

All in all, I think humanity is doing okay considering how many of us continue to cling to the hallucinations of bronze-age tribesmen.
Permalink John Haren 
March 8th, 2007 12:53am
I don't know what the fundies are complaining about. The number of them has increased over the last 30 years while the crime rate has decreased. Anti-doomsday correlations aren't as appealing, I guess.
Permalink can't say that on this forum 
March 8th, 2007 9:27am
Valentine was talking about this yesterday on my drive home.

I don't know if it came from their study, but something like 70% believe that the media is harming morality.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
March 8th, 2007 10:05am
And you heard this on the radio?

You depraved pervert.
Permalink Send private email Aaron F Stanton 
March 8th, 2007 2:46pm

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