Bill Gates supports "infinite" number visas
How would you move an infinite number of visas?
son of parnas
March 9th, 2007 1:43am
They would pay more in taxes than they receive in government services. And by increasing the ratio of skilled to unskilled workers in the economy, they would reduce the wages of the skilled compared to the wages of the unskilled, thereby reducing U.S. income inequality.
U.S. skilled workers may end up losers, as they would under almost any policy that reduces inequality.
March 9th, 2007 1:54am
I'm all for levelling the playing field as long as it is done all around. So the talented americans will also be able to get visas to move to any country of their choosing? Such as the ones with better support for arts and culture and universal health care? I think that's a great plan and am looking forward to the free movement of labor worldwide. So, how do I start? I think I will live in Norway first. Can I just fly over there and start work? This borderless economy is great, everybody!
March 9th, 2007 2:53am
The whole notion of borders is thick.
For example, much as UK politicians pontificate about the influx of immigrants, the truth is that the UK economy could not survive if every foreigner was kicked out.
Much of UK agriculture would be wiped out if it wasn't for cheap labout from eastern europe, no brit wants to spend 16 hours a day picking cabbages.
March 9th, 2007 6:36am
>I'm all for levelling the playing field as long as it is
>done all around. So the talented americans will also be
>able to get visas to move to any country of their choosing?
You do realize that the USA is the MOST difficult place to obtain a visa from *in the world*?
Trust me, I've tried.
If you're all for levelling the playing field then you should be all for this.
March 9th, 2007 7:30am
> Trust me, I've tried.
You've tried getting a visa in all other countries too? The US makes it hard to obtain a legal visa because of all the illegal immigrants. If it could make it harder to be the later, it could afford to make it easier to be the former.
> the UK economy could not survive if every foreigner was kicked out
Could it survive if every foreigner who showed up was allowed in? For example, say I have kidney cancer - will you let me in? I will work as a bus driver for 5 quid a mile and British health care.
> The whole notion of borders is thick.
Why? All human groups have borders, by definition (even Medecins Sans Frontieres has a membership list). A successful society without a border of some sort is a non-existent data point. It may be that *geographical* borders are becoming less useful as technology leaps over them. But I dare say some other borders (with technology's help) will take their place.
> U.S. skilled workers may end up losers, as they would under almost any policy that reduces inequality.
That's a fair point. Yet, professionals are 'losers' in many Western economies. Perhaps no man is an island is true and being a member of more equitable society is worth the price even for the wealthy (trickle up economics).
March 9th, 2007 9:52am
>You've tried getting a visa in all other countries too?
Just the US, but for the same visa type, the US processing time (> 1 year) took longer than any other country in the world, period and the entry restrictions were much more rigorous than any other country in the world. This isn't disputable.
>The US makes it hard to obtain a legal visa because of all
>the illegal immigrants.
This doesn't make any sense. If anything, making it more difficult to obtain a legal visa is only going to encourage more illegal immigrants.
>If it could make it harder to be the later, it could
>afford to make it easier to be the former.
Now you've actually stopped talking in English.
March 9th, 2007 10:37am
I think we should just put those automated machine gun turrets along our border. That would stop the immigration problem.
March 9th, 2007 10:43am
"This isn't disputable."
Sure, I'll dispute it. This is a tourist visa and it took you one year? You are from North Korea or Iran then?
March 9th, 2007 11:13am
> This doesn't make any sense.
Yes it does. If the US government knows X number of illegals will enter in 2007, it tries to stop them but it *still* lowers the quota of legals because it believes the US has a certain carrying capacity. We can argue over whether the US has an "infinite" carrying capacity, that's a side issue, but as long as we agree that there is a limit to how many immigrants can enter the US in any one year the legal/illegal divide is a zero-sum game.
> If anything, making it more difficult to obtain a legal visa is only going to encourage more illegal immigrants.
Yes, it works that way too. The two aren't mutually exclusive. However the current legal framework puts a cap on the percentage of legal visas from any one country (like 5 or 10%, I think). I dare say as long as this (seemingly sensible? I dunno) restriction holds, it doesn't matter how easy the rest of the process is ... if country X has filled up its quota, then no one else from that country will be permitted legally.
It's tough for a West African to enter the US illegally or legally. Let's make it easier to enter legally. If that requires making legality low enough (ie, raising the legal quotas) so that illegality is enforceable (ie, giving fewer excuses for being illegal, busting employers who employ illegals, etc), what's wrong with that?
> Now you've actually stopped talking in English.
Sorry about all the pronouns (I guess there's a human limit to how many can fit into a sentence), I could have written clearer. It is technically a parseable English sentence however.
March 9th, 2007 11:24am
Is Impractical Economist an illegal doopleganger of the legally permitted Practical Economist?
I thought it was just two sides of the same schizo. :)
March 9th, 2007 11:26am
>Sure, I'll dispute it. This is a tourist visa and it took
>you one year?
You cannot emigrate on a tourist visa.
March 9th, 2007 11:43am
>We can argue over whether the US has an "infinite"
It certainly has more than enough room to let as many people to enter as want to.
March 9th, 2007 11:44am
Would you like to offer some evidence for that statement?
March 9th, 2007 12:54pm
Only if the wages drop precipitously and/or all hopes are thrown out the window.
I really don't get how people think there's a free lunch, that there is a limitless demand for labor in the US. Personally I think the US should increase -- triple, quadruple -- legal labor quotas (so that more engineers come in, even though I know it will impact my salary negatively) and make difficult to work, live w/o papers like they do in most countries.
March 9th, 2007 3:07pm
So you are complaining about a fucking visa to emigrate taking a year? Are you insane? What countries take less than a year to process an immigration visa? Most won't even let you immigrate unless you are bringing in lots of cash.
March 9th, 2007 3:54pm