1. I accept that I am under the control of a higher power (Muppet).

18% of Young Women Experience Sexual Victimization

http://www.buffalo.edu/news/fast-execute.cgi/article-page.html?article=84990009

That's a high percentage. Combine that with the research showing men who have not been victimized are more likely to disbelieve other's claims of victimization, and you have perfect recipe for the culture we still have.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 13th, 2007 11:36am
Among lesbians, the percentage that reported incest/molestation is much higher. The studies I've seen are about 75-80%.
Permalink Peter 
March 13th, 2007 11:45am
depending on the definition of victimisation, I'm surprised it's that low.
Permalink $-- 
March 13th, 2007 11:52am
18%?  That's it?
Permalink Michael B 
March 13th, 2007 11:55am
I am also surprised that it's as low as 18%.

Sick, sad world.
Permalink Send private email Aaron F Stanton 
March 13th, 2007 11:59am
You opened a Pandora's box with that link, sop.

The word 'experience' will be dissected this way and that as it's about the feelings of the victim, which, some will argue, are to some degree culturally, definitionably pliable. Many victims will be easy to id as such. Many non-victims as well. And then the gray area in between is a tug-of-war of compassion.
Permalink Send private email strawberry snowflake 
March 13th, 2007 12:05pm
"verbal coercion to have sex with an intimate partner"

If "c'mon baby, it's prom night" is sexual victimization, then I think there's something like 97% of husbands who are verbally abused.
Permalink Send private email Go Fuck Yourself 
March 13th, 2007 12:05pm
That's 1 out of 5 women in the last *2 years*. Over a life time I am sure it's higher.

> Pandora's box

The relationship with the Gods has always been difficult.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 13th, 2007 12:06pm
Ah...I didn't read the "over the last 2 years" bit.

Sigh.
Permalink Send private email Aaron F Stanton 
March 13th, 2007 12:07pm
what's the difference between persuasion and coercion ... ?

at the least, it's a thorny issue.
Permalink $-- 
March 13th, 2007 12:13pm
"what's the difference between persuasion and coercion ... ?"

'I Love You'

'$200?'
Permalink JoC 
March 13th, 2007 12:20pm
Only 18 percent? Some of you have been slacking off?

"That's a high percentage. Combine that with the research showing men who have not been victimized are more likely to disbelieve other's claims of victimization, and you have perfect recipe for the culture we still have."

I'd be curious to see if that was also around 18%... then you could say "Of course they claim they don't believe it - they're the ones who did it!"
Permalink Send private email ~~~x 
March 13th, 2007 12:27pm
18% seems way too low. I've seen several studies that show the incidence of rape is at 30%.
Permalink Practical Economist 
March 13th, 2007 12:38pm
Ah, Ok, the study is only of college age women, and it is how many of them encountered 'sexual victimization' in the 2-yr period of the study.

The rape statistics are if the woman has been violently raped at some time during her entire life. Never seen that one below 30%, and some studies do go as high as 90%, usually by messing with the definition of rape. The 30% is cases where the woman is screaming and being violated, under threat of death. 30% of women have had a knife to their throat, in other words.
Permalink Practical Economist 
March 13th, 2007 12:41pm
It's a Pandora's box because the study makes it seem a simple black/white issue when a guy puts his hand on a woman's knee at a bar .... either she remembers liking him when she answers the questionnaire and not feeling offended, or she remembers not liking him and recalls an 'unwanted' advance. But the reality is probably that she was undecided or, 60/40, or 55/45 or something really marginal at the time. Because that's the way many decisions -- the hard ones like who to snog, who to shag, who to let take one's heart -- are decided ... by tiny degrees.

And if she doesn't want his hand on her knee she should indicate so, and this should be counted as a much, much, much lower offense, more like being rude, than a complete transgression of social mores like rape. Really ... it's not easy to call a misplaced hand-on-knee incident an example of 'sexual victimization' - the whole point of going to a bar for singles is to find out whose hands-on-knees one likes and which ones one doesn't.
Permalink Send private email strawberry snowflake 
March 13th, 2007 12:44pm
Yeah, I agree that that particular study is mostly bullshit.

"Predictors of intimate partner victimization included being married or living together, prior intimate partner victimization and difficulty refusing a partner's request for sex. Thus, women who experience this type of sexual victimization are at risk of experiencing it multiple times, by virtue of remaining in relationships with sexually aggressive men."

OK, so we have a woman who is married and the husband requests sex. The woman doesn't really feel like it, but she consents. So this is defined as 'sexual victimization'. That's just crap on many levels.
Permalink Practical Economist 
March 13th, 2007 12:49pm
"All men are potential rapists" <-- Freshman orientation at a liberal university.

"All women are potential murderers"
Permalink Send private email no label 
March 13th, 2007 12:49pm
"30% of women have had a knife to their throat, in other words."

That has to be nonsense. I would have trouble believing it to be as high as 3%.
Permalink Send private email bon vivant 
March 13th, 2007 12:58pm
> That's just crap on many levels.

Please expound on the levels. When we walk those levels we'll probably see someone staring back who has never had to be afraid of their person.

You might a imagine a similar situation happening in prison. Your much larger and more vicious cell mate--Killer--asks you to do some knobbin-bobbin. At first you protest, but Killer manages to convince you otherwise. I think you can imagine how. And if you think the convincing required violence you would be wrong. You would submit for much less. The threat of terror is more than sufficient. I think you simply need to know how that feels for a while.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 13th, 2007 12:59pm
> I would have trouble believing it to be as high as 3%.

That's usually how science works. We ask people what they would have no trouble believing and take that as the truth.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 13th, 2007 1:00pm
sociology is a science now? i thought we were still waiting for economics to get its science certificate.
Permalink hello. 
March 13th, 2007 1:05pm
> sociology is a science now?

What part of taking readings and gathering data isn't science?
Permalink son of parnas 
March 13th, 2007 1:06pm
> You might a imagine a similar situation happening in prison.

Prisoners don't get to choose their cellmates.
Permalink Send private email strawberry snowflake 
March 13th, 2007 1:07pm
> Prisoners don't get to choose their cellmates.

Yes, yes, please pick apart the analogy and miss the point. It's not unexpected.

You might consider when you go to a bar you don't pick. When you are walking on the street you don't pick. When you are at work you don't pick. Any moment your cell can have a new mate. And think about the prevalence of domestic violence and how violent is the male animal. If you think you can pick that out of the male then you deluded.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 13th, 2007 1:14pm
Science is more than reading and gathterings.
Permalink Send private email Rick, try writing better English 
March 13th, 2007 1:27pm
> Yes, yes, please pick apart the analogy and miss the point.

Without choice the analogy falls apart like a house of matchsticks. If the woman has a choice to stay in the relationship (average income is $35K for the 24-year old women in the study, despite 40% of them being students) then she's not a victim/prisoner.

> by virtue of remaining in relationships with sexually aggressive men."

First time she's a victim. After that? Why doesn't she pick up and leave?

I don't understand the whole "when you go to a bar you don't pick" business. That's exactly what you pick. The bar. The scene. If you don't like the bar, don't go there.  Who is shoving you into a bar? If you don't like the scene don't go there. What's not to pick? Aren't there lots of safe places to go? Why the allure to go to go to some scummy, hole-in-the-wall pick-up joint if you don't want to get picked on? Living with one's less-than-perfect choices is not the same thing as being a victim -- there are victims of sexual assault/domestic violence who aren't consenting to "remaining in sexual relationships" like this study so facilely glosses over. Easy choices are what hormonally challenged teens think the world is about. It ain't.
Permalink Send private email strawberry snowflake 
March 13th, 2007 1:34pm
1 in 6 women were abused when they are young.

Avoid binge drinking?
Permalink Send private email Rick, try writing better English 
March 13th, 2007 1:48pm
"I went to a singles bar and a guy was hitting on me. I am a victim of sexual victimization!! Feel sorry for me! I've been victimized."

"My husband asked me if I wanted sex tonight. I said yes but I didn't really want to. I am a victim of sexual victimization!! Feel sorry for me! I've been victimized."

Both the women in the above examples are nasty ass bitches that men want nothing to do with. Relationships with them are nightmares.
Permalink Practical Economist 
March 13th, 2007 2:54pm
SoP, I am beginning to understand how you feel on this issue,  witnessing the posts made him.
Permalink Send private email Rick, try writing better English 
March 13th, 2007 3:26pm
I hear you on this one SoP.

I have two very cute daughters. Very cute, very young. I'm trying to bring them up to be smart, but deep down, I know it's a game of chance on some level.

That said, all of life is like that. But from the conversations I've had with friends, I've no doubt at all that attractive women get to experience a kind of reality that men have trouble imagining. The whole dynamic of their life, and interactions, is so different.
Permalink $-- 
March 13th, 2007 7:09pm
I have two sisters. One of them is reasonably attractive. The other one worked as a model for five years. My dad taught them how to be extreme firebrands, and I feel a bit sorry for any random dude who has tried to sleazily pick them up. They truly make a sport of putting losers in their place.
Permalink hello. 
March 13th, 2007 10:06pm
"I have two sisters. One of them is reasonably attractive. "

INCEST!!!!!
Permalink Me 
March 14th, 2007 1:18am

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