1. I accept that I am under the control of a higher power (Muppet).

More bogosity:  Hummer Greener Than Prius?

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/03/20/1858204.shtml - An anonymous reader sends in a story from Central Connecticut State University, claiming that a Prius takes more energy to manufacture than a Hummer — 50% more.


Energy usage for construction is localized and the source is probably efficient or they wouldn't have moved their. Energy source for the cars is oil. Using more energy in the former to get less of latter is what is called smart.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 20th, 2007 5:03pm
read the bit about the nickel getting shipped all over europe, china, japan and the oil that consumes.

the read about the acid rain near the factory and decide how "local" is local.

could be they're right and toyota have been telling convenient lies to sell cars?
Permalink  
March 20th, 2007 5:24pm
> the read about the acid rain near the factory and decide how "local" is local.

If the US lowers it's oil related risk what do a few externalities matter?
Permalink son of parnas 
March 20th, 2007 5:27pm
It's very likely true that a Hummer costs less to make than a Prius. It's also likely that it costs a lot more to ship a Hummer than a Prius, and we know about the mileage difference. Also, if Hummers are so cheap to make, how come they cost twice as much as the Prius to buy?

It's also cheaper to install a coalstove in your house for heat than it is to instal a geothermal heatpump.
Permalink Practical Economist 
March 20th, 2007 6:00pm
Hm, the stuff on the nickel used to make the batteries is pretty fucking damning though:

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188

No way around that - the Prius is definitely environmentally devastating.
Permalink Practical Economist 
March 20th, 2007 6:04pm
>If the US lowers it's oil related risk
> what do a few externalities matter?

This is son losing the argument and switching into make-up bs mode.
Permalink  
March 20th, 2007 6:48pm
> This is son losing the argument

Pretty much. I was being facetious. Though if the batteries were assembled in another country I would be more serious.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 20th, 2007 6:50pm
Hello, my friend. Are you zed?
Permalink Send private email Rick Zeng/Tseng 
March 20th, 2007 6:50pm
So's everything made from the results of a polluting process. There's a moonscape around Queenstown, Tasmania that's slowly recovering from the effects of mining and smelting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queenstown,_Tasmania

Most stainless steel contains nickel as well as chrome (another ecological nasty) so that problem extends well beyond hybrids. Ni-Cad batteries are pervasive.

Not that the study lacks merit. But it's a snapshot. The unit inputs will change as oil becomes more expensive and battery manufacture becomes localised and scales up to meet demand. The stranglehold Chevron keeps on battery technology should be removed:

http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1198
Permalink trollop 
March 20th, 2007 7:11pm

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