christians marrying their daughters?
> have no qualms about pledging to remain virgins until marriage.
Of course, because they won't.
son of parnas
March 25th, 2007 11:41pm
If you're not old enough to consent to sex... neither are you old enough to commit to not having sex when you do eventually become old enough to have it.
March 25th, 2007 11:52pm
I cant think of any better way to surround my girls with guilt _and_ assert myself as their paterfamilias.
I am _so_ there.
I wonder if 27 months is too early for this.
March 25th, 2007 11:54pm
I think it's the church's way to shift to heterosexual pedophilia.
One problem at a time.
March 26th, 2007 12:31am
honestly philo, part of me thinks you aren't far off. those ceremonies are about ownership. I would kill before I allowed anyone to own my girls. even myself.
March 26th, 2007 12:48am
I wonder if they realize that there is a probable failure rate of 88%.
I hope none of them are project managers.
March 26th, 2007 12:56am
Where's the ceremony for mothers and sons? Just asking ... the whole concept is so wrongheaded.
March 26th, 2007 1:37am
"Where's the ceremony for mothers and sons?"
that would be wrong. christians dont expect mothers to pwn their sons in the same way that they expect fathers to pwn their daughters.
...and you can take that any way you please...
March 26th, 2007 1:41am
>Where's the ceremony for mothers and sons?
Isn't it bad enough as it is?
March 26th, 2007 1:56am
but if they do incest often enough, in about 5 generations they shoud be extinct
March 26th, 2007 2:16am
Or we'll find out that Idiocracy was actually a documentary.
March 26th, 2007 2:19am
I said I was surrounded by fundies, not that I AM one.
I can see how this would be reassuring to a father -- father's have always been a bit buggy when it comes to the young man who'se going to be sexually active with his daughter.
But I agree it's a false sense of security. Teaching people to be good people is a MUCH better use of your time than extracting a pledge from a 9 year old. And I would feel better if she was swearing this to her mother.
It's also a recent development in the white-washed sepulchre hypocritical neo-Pharisee branch of conservative Christianity these days. Where what you can get somebody to swear to is much more important than what the reality is.
March 26th, 2007 10:01am
Given that demographically, most women these days in western society don't get married until their late 20's is it realistic to expect them to remain virgins until then?
March 26th, 2007 10:12am
Old argument, Billx. We're humans, you can 'realistically' expect just about anything from us.
Now, is it healthy? Is it reasonable? Or do you wind up with people with screwed up psyche's, expecting 'magic' and 'the world' from that one magical person they'll spend their life with?
March 26th, 2007 10:24am
By making sex more expensive (breaking a promise is harder than not breaking a promise), the fundamentalists wish to make it more valuable. More precious.
(That's the non-vilifying analysis.)
It's not that different from vegans and their abstentions.
March 26th, 2007 10:32am
> By making sex more expensive
The problem is the limbic system will destroy this calculation given a suitably attractive cause. Dad needs a chastity belt and a convent to keep his fantasy lover safe.
son of parnas
March 26th, 2007 10:38am
"Teens may pledge with the best of intention... and then as they break their pledges they are so shamed and embarrassed that it's unlikely they will go for help"
Uhm... help? Are we talking threesomes now?
March 26th, 2007 10:46am
"a chastity belt and a convent" -- oh yeah, THAT's the old-time religion, alright.
March 26th, 2007 10:46am
> The problem is the limbic system will destroy this calculation given a suitably attractive cause.
Huh? It doesn't destroy the calculation at all. That would be like saying a law against smoking in the workplace or drunk driving makes no difference (those damn impulses!).
But they do, as a factor in a multi-input decision making process (not all of it conscious).
I'm not saying "a promise is a guarantee of fidelity". Not at all. But it's harder to do an act that one publicly promised not to do than one that has no public promises about. It's one reason marriages and political promises are made in public, despite low rates of success (how low is the rate of non-marriage couples and taciturn politicians?). Yes, there's guilt and so forth if the promise is broken. But if the goal is total abstention (*) then a public statement will likely add a couple percentage points.
(*) Again, my point isn't to agree with the fundamentalists' goals and values, it's to point how their actions flow quite reasonably from them.
Personally, I believe the cost of the guilt (most promises will be broken) is not worth the benefit (the few that aren't don't count highly with me as I evaluate virginity much lower than the folks in the article do) -- but I recognize this for what it is, a value judgment.
March 26th, 2007 11:48am
Young people have never been chaste; all that happened in more 'traditional' societies is that they got married a lot earlier.
If you want your daughter to remain a virgin until marriage, marry her off at fifteen.
March 27th, 2007 9:30am