Sanding our assholes with 150 grit.

I hereby disown black people

I am watching an unbelievable interview on 60 Minutes about the "Stop Snitchin'" campaign in the rap world that has led famous rap stars on down to children to stop talking to police about crimes they have seen committed.


One rap star said to Anderson Cooper--"If there were a serial killer living next door to me and I knew he was the killer I would simply move.  I would not tell the police."

What. The. Fuck.

I thought black folks had some hope.  Apparently not.  Sure, the police are a problem, but if you consistently and willfully allow crime in your neighborhood, YOU are the problem.

If someone asks me what race I am, and they inevitably do, I will say, from now on, "Yes, I am black, but due to circumstances that I am sure you understand, I do not claim them as my family or culture."
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 7:55pm
what's the reasoning behind not telling the police?
Permalink bob 
April 22nd, 2007 7:57pm
I'm finding it hard to hold back the jokes "That's mighty White of you!" or "Thanks for being White!" - just thought of that one.  lol.

But seriously, I just wanted to say "Hi, Shark!  How been doin'?"  :-))  I miss you're technical nature, at times.  You could really keep things interesting, and I don't find that on boards much anymore.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
April 22nd, 2007 8:05pm
Well, LorB, I'm just not interested in anything anymore.

All I do is go to work, work out, eat, and try to have fun the rest of the time.

I could be doing some cool things, but nobody in real life cares.  I have no one to share my robotics interests, programming interests, etc.  In real life, I'm just WEIRD.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 8:15pm
"what's the reasoning behind not telling the police?"\

I stopped watching after a certain point, so I didn't get the definitive reason.

I think it has something to do with "honor" and someone said it is an "ethical code".  When I heard that nonsense, everything else after sounded like gibberish.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 8:17pm
Not to be difficult, or anything, but this too is one aspect of the inner city I find VERY hard to accept.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
April 22nd, 2007 8:27pm
>> I have no one to share my robotics interests, programming interests, etc.  In real life, I'm just WEIRD. <<

Move to a city with a higher geek ratio.
San-Fran & bay-area, Seattle, Austin, Raleigh-Durham.

You are not alone.
Permalink xampl 
April 22nd, 2007 8:29pm
>what's the reasoning behind not telling the police?
Class differences which will probably develop into class warfare.

The Thin Blue Line:
Police tend to develop an "us versus them" mentality and to some social classes it comes down harder than others. Many black folk think that police are the enemy and the rapper campaign Sharky is referring to enforces that cultural meme. Driving While Black is a semi-mock observation that black folks get pulled over by the police at greater numbers than white folks.

The republican'ts have hardened the "us vs them" attitude into one where personal fealty to bush is the only possible action. Spying on the rest of America? That is "us versus them" and you are them. Patriot act? That is also "us versus them" and you are them. Get used to being black no matter how white/oriental/hispanic you are.

Lobsters have to be kept in tanks with lids, because lobsters would escape. Crabs can be kept in buckets because when one tries to escape, the others will pull it back down into the bucket. There are a lot of crabs in America.
Permalink Peter 
April 22nd, 2007 9:43pm
I agree with the rap people. Most of the time snitching doesn't do anybody any good. Of course it depends on what they are doing. But for example, somebody next door is selling pot? Or making fake ids? It's none of my business. Now, if they are running a meth lab, that IS my business since that toxic shit could be problems, and I'll rat them out. Someone shoots their boyfriend or whatever, I didn't see nothing.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 22nd, 2007 10:19pm
Geez, Washington D.C. is the "murder capitol" of America.  And part of what keeps it that way is that people won't tell the police enough to let them prosecute.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
April 22nd, 2007 10:21pm
"Now, if they are running a meth lab, that IS my business since that toxic shit could be problems, and I'll rat them out. Someone shoots their boyfriend or whatever, I didn't see nothing."

That's just it.  These people being interviewed won't call the cops under any circumstances.  The rappers were saying "I would just move."  Okay.  And leave children and helpless people to fend for themselves?  What kind of Machiavellian shit is that?

Fuck these people.  They are the shit on the bottom of my shoe.

And I say that for anyone who thinks they live in this society alone, including Republicans.  I absolutely despise this way of thinking where no one takes responsibility for their own communities.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 10:23pm
Hm, 7 responses before it is explicitly Bush's fault. Pick up the pace people.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 22nd, 2007 10:25pm
I really doubt it would be ANYTHING. Like maybe if a white person robs a black person's store? Or maybe that was explicit in this code - it's only not reporting crimes by blacks? I still don't believe it would be for anything though. Like the 'serial killer' thing. Well, when was the last time we had a black serial killer? Never? It's a known phenomenon that almost all serial killers are working class white men. So maybe that argument is irrelevant. More relevant is drug trafficing and use right? Since that's what black people 'do'. And looting, musn't forget that black people 'loot' things and white people 'find' things.

But anyway, the police have a Blue Code of Silence. It says that if a cop commits a crime, other cops don't rat him out. And if a cop is lying or putting the wrong people in jail for political or personal reasons, the other cops don't rat him out. The Blue Code of silence has been a working fact for all police departments for over 100 years in this country? Why don't people complain about that instead of black people? Why? Because of racism and blind worship of authority.

The rappers are doing the right thing.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 22nd, 2007 10:30pm
Nice try, PE.  But no.

The Blue Code doesn't make Stop Snitchin' right.

The other example was the rapper (I forget his name but he just won a Grammy of some sort) whose body guard got shot at his concert.  The rapper refuses to interview, and the police know there were at least 24 other witnesses--who also won't interview.

The rappers say its about money, period.  There is no ethics here.  It is about maintaining their street credibility so they can sell more albums.

The rappers are emulating the cruel, ruthless white establishment that says all things in pursuit of money are a-ok.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 10:35pm
The "stop snitchin'" campaign is a MARKETING strategy used by various rap entrepreneurs to sell $30 t-shirts and mix tapes. I'm sure the dudes who came up with it could give a shit about snitches. The sad thing is that nobody can tell the difference between marketing and reality anymore. Did anyone really think rage against the machine was really into revolutionary communism whilst simultaneously making tons of money off of che guevarra t-shirts?
Permalink hello. 
April 22nd, 2007 10:41pm
Oh I have no doubt about the marketing piece.

But then they interview the children.  Who really think stop snitchin' means something profound.

So no, it doesn't matter that it became a marketing campaign that some exec ok'd and is now vacationing in Maui somewhere laughing all the way to the bank.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 10:43pm
The stupidity depresses me.  I can't even think about this anymore, it is so so wrong.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 22nd, 2007 10:44pm
OK, I see now the issue with it. If it's a way to get street cred and then sell albums, yeah, that's disgusting and those people are monsters.

For me, I'm speaking from the perspective of whether one should report crimes to the police in general, or even to agree to testify about something as opposed to saying "I didn't see nothing." For me, the answer is usually to refuse to cooperate, and this is from observing the dynamics of our police state, and also from seeing the consequences of all this stuff, and weighing the actual harm done to society/others if any, and whether I really saw anything useful or not. It's not uncommon for some witnesses poor uncertain identification of a suspect to be what gets a conviction, and later the person is cleared on DNA after 15 years in federal prison. I don't trust the police or the system to make any good use out of any eyewitness testimony. Justice is usually NOT served by our system, or by any system.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 22nd, 2007 11:37pm
The Theory of Counterinsurgency in Six Easy Paragraphs
>The house next door to you is sold, and the people who move in are white supremacist skinheads. You discover that they’ve started up a methamphetamine lab in their basement. You think about calling your County Sheriff’s Department, but you’re not so sure. The cops strike you as generally overweight and none too swift. The only time you ever see them is in the mall, two cruisers parked side by side, the deputies gossiping and waiting for the next radio call instead of being on patrol. You’re afraid that if you tell them about your neighbors the news will leak out and you’ll get your house burned down one night. After all, you have a wife and kids and a mortgage.

>But one day the SWAT team shows up to serve a warrant and kicks down the neighbor’s door and drags them off to jail. You’re incredibly pleased and highly relieved. You vow that the next time the Department is doing some charity work you’ll write a check. And you tell one of the deputies that if he sees you out in the yard to stop and you’ll let him know what’s going on in the neighborhood.

>Now let’s shift that scenario to a slightly alternate universe where the Bill of Rights doesn’t apply. The Sheriff’s Department gets the word that someone in the neighborhood is cooking meth. They don’t know who, but since no one in the neighborhood is telling them anything they think everyone might be white supremacists. So one night they kick down your door looking for the meth lab. They point guns at your kids and your wife and scare them half to death. While searching your home they break your furniture and throw your belongings everywhere. And they slap you around trying to get you to tell them where the meth lab is. By now you’ve forgotten all about your scary neighbors—you just want to get even with those cops.

>Even worse, let’s say that the cops find out exactly where the meth lab is. But they’re afraid of the neighborhood, and they don’t want to get shot at taking down the lab. So they call in a fighter bomber and drop a 500 lb guided bomb on your neighbor’s house. That takes care of the meth lab, but it also blows down one wall of your house, breaks every window, and destroys the car you need to get to work every day. You don’t know what you’re going to do.

>A couple of nights later, another neighbor comes to your door and says he’s making a bomb to blow up the next patrol car that comes down the road. And would you help him dig the hole for $100?

>You’d probably do it for nothing, wouldn’t you?

http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/six_easy_paragraphs.htm
Permalink Peter 
April 22nd, 2007 11:56pm
That's pretty interesting. The second situation, meant to be something like Iraq, is actually almost identical to the situation in the US. No bombs yet, but all the rest is true.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 23rd, 2007 12:07am
PE, I think you're forgetting MOVE and how the Philly police department built and dropped a bomb that set fire to near 60 homes. The fire department wasn't allowed into the neighborhood by the police. That maneuver ended up costing the city around $30,000,000 to undo. Some of the homes still haven't been rebuilt, 22 years later.

Like Waco, but black.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-05-11-philadelphia-bombing_x.htm
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/MOVE-Phihladelphia-BombNYT14may85.htm
Permalink Peter 
April 23rd, 2007 1:27am
True.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 23rd, 2007 1:33am
Holy fuck.
Permalink trollop 
April 23rd, 2007 2:15am
I gotta go with sharky here.  Folks complain that their neighborhoods are too dangerous, that the police won't do nothin', but they won't do anything to help the police make the neighborhood better.

"Ain't nobody going to jail for shootin' a few niggers."  I thought that crap was supposed to be a thing of the past, not an active goal of the black community.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
April 23rd, 2007 9:04am
"The Blue Code of silence has been a working fact for all police departments for over 100 years in this country? Why don't people complain about that instead of black people? Why? Because of racism and blind worship of authority."

Two wrongs don't make a white?

Ok, so that was just wrong... but irresistable.

Gang violence dropped off dramatically in Little Rock over the last 15-20 years. People had always told the cops, and never stopped doing so. But I think what changed things most was people becoming more active.

Active, as in, loading a van SWAT-style and going and shooting the hell out of the nearest crackhouses. There were some citizens that had enough and they started to do this in retaliation every time a driveby or other such happened.
Permalink JoC 
April 23rd, 2007 10:44am
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3724469564880253102
Permalink Who Really Bugs Me 
April 23rd, 2007 12:31pm
>Poor people either do not have access to the law or see it as a source of harassment -- which is why they are more likely to fall back on violence as a form of "self-help."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/22/AR2007042201190.html?nav=rss_print/asection
Permalink Peter 
April 23rd, 2007 1:42pm
That's a very interesting theory.
Permalink Practical Economist 
April 23rd, 2007 2:20pm
Don;t you have to own something first before you can disown it?
Permalink Send private email Stephen Jones 
April 23rd, 2007 2:27pm
In that case parents can't disown their children, which they seem to do regularly.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
April 23rd, 2007 7:30pm
Sharkie, I think the word you want is disavow

dis·a·vow   
–verb (used with object) to disclaim knowledge of, connection with, or responsibility for;

In this particular instance, it is more appropriate than disown. Ever slight difference in meaning, but still different.

dis·own
–verb (used with object) to refuse to acknowledge as belonging or pertaining to oneself; deny the ownership of or responsibility for; repudiate; renounce: to disown one's heirs; to disown a published statement.
Permalink Send private email Tapiwa 
April 24th, 2007 4:16am

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