A bunch of cunts, mostly in the Australian sense. Except that one guy.

lack of health insurance

is the biggest reason I can't quit my job and try the music school thing full time.  surely lack of health insurance is a big turn-off to entrepreneurs?
Permalink the great purple 
July 3rd, 2007 3:23pm
well, think of it this way.  There are a lot of Americans that don't have insurance, you could fit in by not having any.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 3rd, 2007 3:26pm
There are insurance plans out there for individuals; I looked into one for myself at one point. Is it that the cost is prohibitive, rather than lack of availability?
Permalink Send private email bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2007 3:27pm
> Is it that the cost is prohibitive,

Yes, try a 1000 a month and that's not even with good coverage.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 3rd, 2007 3:29pm
Health insurance situation sucks for everyone but the rich. If you're very sick and have preexisting conditions, from a practical standpoint, you are probably better off working a corporate or government job.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 3:29pm
Lower taxes are a lure for entrepreneurs who tend to be either/both young or/and risk-taking, so go without anyway.
Permalink Send private email heartsheep 
July 3rd, 2007 3:31pm
Eh, I want to have kids.  I can't go without health insurance.  it would be highly irresponsible.

The cost is currently at $500/month or so, bc I'm healthy & have no kids.  For my mom it would be $1000/month bc she's diabetic.
Permalink the great purple 
July 3rd, 2007 3:33pm
> highly irresponsible

Entrepreneurs *are* highly irresponsible. On average. You know, they say most businesses fail, no?
Permalink Send private email heartsheep 
July 3rd, 2007 3:40pm
$1000/mo.  Is that for a family or an individual?

Because when I was buying it, it was $165 a month (42 year old male, good health, and the better of the two policies that Blue Cross offered)
Permalink xampl 
July 3rd, 2007 4:21pm
$165/mo is cheaper than the portion I would be expected to pay if I signed up for individual coverage under the group plan with my employer.

$1000/mo isn't really that bad if you are working for yourself. You should be making $12k/yr more anyway? If you wouldn't or don't then you should probably be working for someone else.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 3rd, 2007 4:28pm
Well, *right now* I make 12k/year outside of the office job, because I have no time to take on more students.  Over the course of several years, if I had more time, I could take on enough students to make 30-40k.  Problem is, in order to make the time I have to quit the job, and then my entire income goes to health insurance.
Permalink the great purple 
July 3rd, 2007 4:32pm
You can't get included in your husband's coverage?
Permalink Send private email bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2007 4:33pm
my husband is currently contracting and is on my health insurance.
Permalink the great purple 
July 3rd, 2007 4:35pm
That's pretty interesting since I know several people who are working normal (non creative) jobs only to get health insurance so they don't have to pay for that in their real job, which is their private consulting, freelance writing/acting/design, or ISV. I bet that is the new pattern for the 21st century. Work 40 hours at any job with benefits, then fit in your real job where you work on your passion during other hours.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 4:42pm
We should have a name for this 'emerging phenomenon' and then write a book about it.

"Piggybacking Your Passion", how's that for a title? Piggyback on a normal job for bennies.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 4:44pm
Wait, I just remembered, there is a name for this already. "The Day Job".
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 4:45pm
shit. karma is cruel. just gashed my hand. with the kitchen sink (literally). may need to go to er. damn. 4th july.sucks.
Permalink Send private email heartsheep 
July 3rd, 2007 4:52pm
> $1000/mo isn't really that bad if you are working for yourself.

RUserious? That's plus prescriptions etc. Add on house + car + insurance and there's not much left over. To think a 1000 a month isn't that bad is a joke. Half my relatives make just a little more than twice that in a year.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 3rd, 2007 5:18pm
Then don't take the insurance and just pay for the health services you need?
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 3rd, 2007 6:02pm
I mean, nobody makes you buy health insurance... Except for the Nazis in Massachusetts who should be summarily hanged/shot/stabbbed/beaten about the ears.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 3rd, 2007 6:03pm
And even if you buy health insurance through an employer or otherwise, if you have any *really* costly expenses, you'll be rather fucked anyway.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 3rd, 2007 6:04pm
Just paying for the services you need would be a reasonable possibility if the cost was sensible. But when you can be billed $150 for a simple ten minute consultation at a doctor's office, it gets out of hand. That's like a $1000/hour. Even lawyers don't charge that much.
Permalink Send private email bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2007 6:42pm
My orthopedist recently charged $250 for a cortisone shot in my shoulder.  That did not include the cost of the actual cortisone.

The ACT of giving the shot, which took approximately 15 seconds, cost $250.  That's insane.
Permalink A-Merrick-an-Girl 
July 3rd, 2007 6:44pm
> Then don't take the insurance and just pay for the health services you need?

Do you actually live in the real world? Have any idea how much meds cost? A single procedure can totally bankrupt you regardless of income.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 3rd, 2007 6:46pm
Exactly. The most trivial routine thing like setting a broken bone can easily run in the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars. Giving birth routinely with no complications can cost $30,000 if you go to certain hospitals. Simple dental work can run over $10,000.

If you actually have something wrong with you and need something complex, like open heart surgery, or anything involving cancer, prices start at $1 million.

Now, when Medicare comes in they say, hm, your actual cost of doing that is like $10,000 and you are charging $5 million? Well, we will only pay $12,000, which covers your costs and a nice 20% profit. The medical people then scream bloody murder and say "But that does not account for our bureaucratic overhead, or our return to shareholders. Waah!"
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 8:04pm
just came back from ER. 3 stitches. tetanus shot. very efficient and friendly. $350. sucks. oh well. there goes the iPhone.

(the ER itself was giving me anxiety as the last time I was there for a friend of mine who was in the psychiatric ER, and they had to commit her involuntarily, despite her quiet, somber pleas that all she needed was a pap smear. you know, to make sure the aliens hadn't given her cervical cancer when they raped her.)
Permalink Send private email heartsheep 
July 3rd, 2007 8:05pm
Anyway, the reason people can not afford health insurance is because it is too expensive for decent coverage of a family ($1000/month for a basic policy with co-pays and limited catastrophic coverage for a family of 4, can pay $10,000 a month premiums if you get nice policy that has no copays and actually lets you see a doctor you want to see.) The reason for this is the medical system is massively overcharging for everything. So the solution is not to preserve their profits at all costs, even if it involves forcing some poor sap making only $9000 a year to buy a policy or go to jail. The solution is MASSIVE regulation of every aspect of the business.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 8:07pm
Did they really force her into the loony bin for reporting alien rape? You know, there are lots and lots of people who remember those sorts of things and they are normal people. Best to keep quiet about it and preserve the illusion that 'nothing is going on'.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 8:08pm
Yes. Not sure if it was that specifically as she had calmed down quiet a bit by the time I got there. It was definitely the best thing to do .. she kept saying a nondescript being had broken into her apartment the night before, and raped her with a syringe. She just wanted them (or me even) to look down there and find the pinprick. She was only admitted because she had gone to the university clinic for a pap smear. Rather matter-of-factly. They diagnosed her as manic, hallucinating.

And it's why I was anxious .. as my memory of the small ER waiting room is of her being wheeled off, with an expression of disbelief at her predicament, if acceptance.
Permalink Send private email heartsheep 
July 3rd, 2007 8:22pm
University clinic? Was she a student?

The problem with this stuff is it's probably just stress from finals or midterms or whatever and now she has a record of madness that will follow her around for her life. There is no privacy when it comes to this sort of stuff, regardless of what the doctors claim. And you can even be legally required to disclose any such incidents too as if it was a criminal sex crime record, like if you apply for a government job. Theoretically, they are 'not allowed' to discriminate against you because of your mental health history, but there's no way to prove they didn't.

Marked for life with a scarlet M.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 3rd, 2007 9:00pm
grad school.

she had had a similar incident in college 10 years earlier. 

in fact she had had many events, but only a couple times close enough to standard health establishment (her psychiatrist was horrified that she had been committed, but I think she was wrong). her kitchen cabinet was overflowing with psychotropic prescription meds from old scripts, though i don't think she self-medicated. she was switching medicines and that could have caused the psychotic breakdown (risperadol to lithium, i think).

I think she's an art professor in a good northeast school now. she may have been brilliant. I could never make it far into her PhD thesis.

she really was insane, btw. but just enough above to be sorta functional.
Permalink Send private email heartsheep 
July 3rd, 2007 9:35pm
The dollar figures in this thread beggar belief.
Permalink trollop 
July 3rd, 2007 10:42pm
For real numbers on health insurance cost, go to http://www.supermedone.com/ .  Go to the part where it gives you a quote.  Put in 44106 (one of the zip codes in Cleveland).  It doesn't require any other info.  Start messing with different ages and family sizes and see what it costs.  Keep in mind that different plans cover different things, so if your deductible is $5000, that's very different from a plan where your deductible is $500.
Permalink the great purple 
July 3rd, 2007 11:35pm
Did that. For my family the cheapest quote is $US355/mo for a $US10,000 deductible. The most expensive is $1930/mo for a $1000 deduct.

Whew. Compare that with $A3000/yr (of which I pay $2100 b/c the govt chips in 30%) for mid-range cover and I have no complaints. I could pay twice that if I wanted everything with the lot and a $A200 excess for hospital services instead of $A400. The GP clips us $A50, some of which is refundible and the pharmacist asks for $A30/script, the balance being paid by medical benefits that US pharma wants us to disassemble (right now, buddy).

Somehow I can't see any sanity in paying what you pay for the service that you get. Ok, I pay taxes, even taxes on taxes to the Govt to run our health system so that everyone has access to medical treatment according to their need.
Permalink trollop 
July 4th, 2007 1:20am
Presumably if we provide better health care, there won't be enough left for all the civilian carpet bombing and other foreign adventures that is doing so much for us.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 4th, 2007 1:24am
Um, yeah, PE, when somebody goes nuts and starts asking the doctors to check her for where the aliens probed her, committing her is a reasonable thing to do.  So is making a note of that on her record.  Keeping track of who is bat-shit crazy and who isn't is a very important thing for public safety.  Wouldn't want her, for instance, making a large investment at the local gun store and exploring the artistic beauty of bullets impacting students from her perch atop the local bell tower.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 5th, 2007 8:13am
No, it's not because being committed is WORSE than having a prison record for multiple homicide as far as it relates to your being able to find employment and lead a normal life.

The doctor should have done this:

P: Aliens are in my vagina!
D: Tell me about your life. Do you work?
P: I am a grad student.
D: What's going on at school?
P: My thesis is overdue, I don't have enough to pay for student loans, I am working two minimum wage jobs.
D: Do you use any drugs, alchohol?
P: Some E on occasion, MJ on the weekends.
D: How is your diet?
P: Mostly top ramen and mcdonalds right now.
D: How much water do you drink per day?
P: A lot. At least 8 diet pepsis.
D: Exercise?
P: Not really.
D: Right, OK, well one of the side effects of THC is paranoia especially when combined with sleep deprivation. Look, maybe aliens are probing you, but I don't see any needle marks like you mention. These sorts of alien experiences are not uncommon in the literature and studies show they are correlated to high stress lifestyles and drug use. Right now I think you are hallucinating because of all the stress you are under. Let's deal with your life situation and then if the aliens return, we can talk some more about other things we can do. There are some therapists who can retrieve hidden memories under hypnosis and such, but let's start with the obvious and that's getting rest, stopping the MJ, and some stress management.


That is what the doctor would do if he knew a fucking thing about medicine but he is an incompetent fuckup and so he gets all scared of aliens and destroys the poor woman's life instead. Asshole.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 5th, 2007 3:29pm
"making a large investment at the local gun store and exploring the artistic beauty of bullets impacting students from her perch atop the local bell tower"

Please state the number of female alien abductees who have subsequently gone on shooting rampages.

I have the exact number here, but I think you should research this yourself so that you don't just accuse me of making up statistics.

You fascist police state loving nazi.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 5th, 2007 3:31pm
Oh!  You said FEMALE.  Yeah, female's don't tend to go on shooting rampages -- that's more a guy thing.

Now, drowning their children, yeah, a few females have done that.  Spoils it for everybody, doesn't it?
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 5th, 2007 5:21pm
"Do you actually live in the real world? Have any idea how much meds cost? A single procedure can totally bankrupt you regardless of income"

Then the insurance isn't what is priced too high, now is it?

You are effectively saying yourself that it is indeed 'worth it'.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 5th, 2007 5:30pm

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