making $100,000 or so
I want 100k as a single person. If I do the family thing, would like 120k and 175-200 if I am lucky. Hopefully by 40.
I think I could make more in smaller/medium sized companies probably in a non development role of some type (maybe dual role, administration, architect, development).
Yea, I am greedy.
July 9th, 2007 2:47pm
"There is enough in this world for every man's need, but not for even one man's greed." - Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.
Depends on what country you live in. And what part of that country you live in. And the cost of living in that part of that country you live in.
And what your wife is making on top of that, if anything. And how many kids you have. And where you want THEM to go to college.
Rule of thumb -- the shorter a question is, the more it takes to try to figure out what the hell the question really was.
Oh, and it depends on what you can do, and what people are willing to pay you to do it.
For me, the areas I have lived in (Tx, Ga). 100k-120k is pushing it. In development roles, especially. DBAs are making 80k-100k easy and if you are a contractor without getting insurance or extras, you can get that.
In my location, it is possible to do 100k but I would have get creative and add 5-10 years experience.
July 9th, 2007 2:50pm
I make a fair bit more than $100K, and my SO makes a fairly decent full time wage as well.
Somehow we have about $80K of debt, and barely swim above water.
Seriously, Berlin, if you want to make real wealth, DON'T even begin to think you could do that in tech. industry as a worker/consultant. You can't. The real money is in Food, Shelter and Clothing. Add in Medicine and Entertainment. Even war does not create wealth. War just takes existing wealth and re-distributes it (of course, unless you are interested in making money that way).
"Holiday Inn, own and operate" is where the big bucks always will be.
The two of you are making 200K and have 80K in debt? Medical issue? Kids? Drugs? Gambling? What's your house payment?
"Seriously, Berlin, if you want to make real wealth, DON'T even begin to think you could do that in tech. industry as a worker/consultant."
I am not saying wealth, but you said 100k-150k. As a j2ee/java developer/architect (whatever) that is not hard to do. In Atlanta, the airline developer/expedia type roles pay pretty good (delta, some others).
July 9th, 2007 3:05pm
Talking about an average 4 person family.
Looking at the cost of health care and housing and college, $100,000 will buy you a MODEST lower-middle to middle-middle class lifestyle. You probably won't send your kids to private schools or have a full time housemaid unless you skimp on other things.
Upper middle class I'd say now starts at $250,000. This is where you have a maid like on the Brady Bunch (they lived in a modest house in the suburbs), mom can stay home if she wishes. Can hire a nanny.
Middle class is no longer the majority. Most people are upper-lower class ($50k family income) or lower middle class ($50-80k).
For example, as a developer, imagine you live in a development friendly city, Manhattan, the bay area, or Orange County.
You need a place to live. Let's say you buy a 2 bedroom fixer upper in a part of town with merely poor schools and only a modest drug and gang problem. This will run you $1,000,000 at current prices. I'm assuming you don't want to get one of those super cheap places like the trailers in LA that sell for $500,000 on a leased slip in a trailer park.
Fixed mortgage average assuming good credit as of last night was 6.32%. 30 years gives you a monthly mortgage payment of $6202.77. That's $74,433.24 a year only for mortgage. You'll have to pay mortgage insurance, house insurance, property tax, maintenance, water for the lawn, electricity, homeowner's fees, etc etc on top of that, which will come to about $120,000 just for your house.
Now, are the kids in college? Saving for that? Need health care? Plan to buy food? Paying for two cars and gas and their maintenance.
$100,000 will not do it in the bay area to even live in a crap 2 bedroom house. $150,000 won't even do it. You need $200,000 just to live comfortable, $300-1M to live without worries.
"6.32%. 30 years gives you a monthly mortgage payment of $6202.77. That's $74,433.24 a year only for mortgage."
Can you explain the math?
"$100,000 will not do it in the bay area to even live in a crap 2 bedroom house. $150,000 won't even do it. You need $200,000 just to live comfortable, $300-1M to live without worries."
What NY kind of dumb company will pay those kind of fees for a software developer to write in .NET/J2EE. No wonder jobs are being outsourced and like Joel said arent as many software companies in NY.
Why does it seem like their is a surplus of developers in SF then? Isnt the cost of living just as high?
July 9th, 2007 6:52pm
Simple TVM calculation, use Excel's payment PMT function.
It's in the right ballpark, I get a payment of $6150 treating 6.32% as being the usual Canadian rate of "compounded semi-annually not in advance" instead of APR or whatever it is the US uses.
July 9th, 2007 7:02pm
> What NY kind of dumb company will pay those kind of fees for a software developer to write in .NET/J2EE.
Any investment bank. NYC is not a developer friendly city unless you are doing financial software. Even then, I wouldn't call it "friendly."
Re: the bay area. Most homeowners I know are couples with a combined income of $180K or more.
> Simple TVM calculation, use Excel's payment PMT function.
that doesn't explain the math!
"Re: the bay area. Most homeowners I know are couples with a combined income of $180K or more."
It seems like SF isnt as bad. Also heard from a friend that says some people live in Oakland and commute over to SF.
July 9th, 2007 7:30pm
PV * (1+i)^N + PMT * (((1+i)^N - 1)) / i + FV = 0
July 9th, 2007 7:41pm