Reconciling assholes for nearly a decade.

The Rage of Man

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19424928/ - Why so angry? How rage can make you ill, 1 in 10 men believed mad enough to damage property, injure others

<quote>
After his divorce, Overstreet found another love, but he quickly fell into old habits. One night, when his new fiancée took a wrong turn on the way home, he lost control. "You can almost make a machine-gun-intense argument, when you don't give someone a chance to respond," Overstreet says. "It's a verbal assault under the guise of some logical, reasoned argument. You're watching it happen, you know it's happening, but you can't stop it."

Only after Overstreet was finished reaming out the love of his life did he remember that her roommate, a meek foreign-exchange student, was riding in the backseat. When Overstreet turned around, he saw her cowering, like a witness to murder.
</quote>

Men don't understand why women are afraid. This is one reason.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 12th, 2007 3:58pm
And this is why women should always have something handy to hit men over the head with. :-P
Permalink Full name 
July 12th, 2007 4:01pm
dismount that high horse.

1 in 20 women exhibit the same behavior.
Permalink Send private email arg! 
July 12th, 2007 4:02pm
> 1 in 20 women exhibit the same behavior.

What's the expected damage value of an enraged male over pissed off women?
Permalink son of parnas 
July 12th, 2007 4:07pm
"but you can't stop it"...

That's complete bullshit. People are always in control. They like to pretend that they are out of control so that they can do what they really want to do and then not look like complete assholes later. Like that stupid drinking meme among Japanese businessmen.

Even in my highest drug induced highs, and, recently, in most clinically insane moments (where I have almost no control of my thoughts), I have complete control of my actions. I can stop whatever I am doing.

If he had the mental facillities to talk, he had the mental capacity for judgment. He just chose to ignore it so he could fulfill some sick need.
Permalink anoneemouse 
July 12th, 2007 4:07pm
"If you're blowing up a couple of times a week, you probably have the disorder," says Emil Coccaro, M.D., a leading anger researcher at the University of Chicago. "The average person shouldn't be having arguments and temper tantrums."
Permalink Send private email 'nuff said 
July 12th, 2007 4:08pm
when coupled with an average male, the results can be quite devistating!
Permalink Send private email arg! 
July 12th, 2007 4:08pm
I think my ex-girlfriend had that disorder. I wasn't afraid of getting killed but it sure wasn't fun when the cops came over to my house after she claimed that I attacked her. After seeing the gouges in my face from when she tried to claw my eyes out, they told me to go stay at a friend's house for a week and never contact her again.
Permalink hello. 
July 12th, 2007 4:19pm
Don't discount the capability of a pissed off woman to hurt people or things.  Women underestimate that capacity, but it's only because they don't realize their own capabilities.  A hundred pound mammal has impressive destructive power no matter what the species or gender.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 12th, 2007 4:28pm
> Don't discount the capability of a pissed off woman to hurt people or things. 

I am more worried about men underestimating themselves. You all responded as expected, citing how dangerous women can be, happily ignoring the inner demons that soak this planet in blood.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 12th, 2007 4:31pm
"1 in 10 men believed mad enough to damage property"

I think it's much higher. How many movies show the hero in an office knocking over his desk or smashing a vase to make a point. Hasn't everyone thrown something across the room at least once in their life?
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 4:35pm
I agree. Based on the data I've collected from television, movies, and internet forums, I would say that at least 9/10 american, israel-supporting males would gladly stain the planet in blood by throwing a vase across the room.
Permalink hello. 
July 12th, 2007 4:37pm
"After seeing the gouges in my face from when she tried to claw my eyes out, they told me to go stay at a friend's house for a week and never contact her again."

Now that's the hello I know and love.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 4:37pm
"I am more worried about men underestimating themselves. You all responded as expected, citing how dangerous women can be, happily ignoring the inner demons that soak this planet in blood"

err. I like the color blue and cute fluffy bunnies.
Permalink Send private email arg! 
July 12th, 2007 4:38pm
of course sop is right. leverage accounts for something. a woman in the 99-percentile of being able to do pushups matches a man in the 50-percentile. and pushup muscles are used for hitting.

in a perfectly egalitarian society we'd expect the 2:1 ratio to even out. many more angry women, many fewer angry guys. still danger = potential X power.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 12th, 2007 4:38pm
I'm just commenting on the idea that only 1/10 have damaged property in any respect during their lives while angry. I think it's higher. They try to tie 1/10 to the 'hurt another person while angry' by using a misleading 'or' clause. This is intentional, to give the idea that 1/10 people will 'hurt' others while angry. Maybe that one is correct though. I'd say 30% of my girlfriends have hit me when they are pissed about something. That's a deal breaker for me, by the way. It only gets worse.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 4:40pm
It seems to me (evolutionarily speaking) that in the right circumstances, such rages could be useful, the problem with modern society is that such circumstances don't happen very often, leading to inappropriate behaviour
Permalink Billx 
July 12th, 2007 4:42pm
I should also answer that I've seen exactly the situation described at the very end of the article demonstrated by a woman.  Downstairs neighbor was out one night and his girlfriend came over.  She was pretty much ready to batter his door down and we finally had to call the cops.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 12th, 2007 4:43pm
Evidences?

1) Jerry Springer
2) Trainspotter
3) Pulp Fiction

Yes, MEN ARE ANGRY!!!

Of course, women can be angry too. In fact, remove scissors and knifes from you house...
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 12th, 2007 4:44pm
0.5% to 10%

Amazing increase if you ask me.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 12th, 2007 4:45pm
Speking from personal experience, I would say a man in a rage is a lot safer than a women in a rage - generally, the man has been taught from an early age how to deal with it while the woman has not - the man will take his rage out on an inanimate object, the woman will kill you.
Permalink Billx 
July 12th, 2007 4:47pm
I was just being ridiculous, my apologies.

Dealing with someone flying off the handle verbally or physically is not fun. My ex girlfriend still harasses me every six weeks or so, even though the incident where she kept trying to beat me up for a week happened early last year. It is a pain in the ass. I still have to deal with questions like "do i need to change my phone number?" because every so often I get five or six text messages at 11:30pm which are essentially booty calls, but with each message they slowly change tone into "fine asshole. you don't know what you are missing."  San Francisco is a pretty small place; all the places I like to go are places she'll probably be, so I'm always worried that I'm going to be going on a date with some normal person and my ex is going to show up and cause a scene.

If any hint of verbal or physical abuse like this happens to friends of mine, I tell them to drop the other person immediately. I suppose there is counseling or something that may help (i doubt it) . But in my past experience, unless you need to deal with kids or joint property issues, if someone hits you or rages out on you, it is like a "test" for them to see how far they can push it. If you let them do it once, the next time they will just do it with more intensity, until something really bad happens.
Permalink hello. 
July 12th, 2007 4:51pm
"the man will take his rage out on an inanimate object, the woman will kill you"

Very good insight.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 5:50pm
"If you let them do it once, the next time they will just do it with more intensity, until something really bad happens."

Yes, this is always true.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 5:51pm
> the man will take his rage out on an inanimate object, the woman will kill you

That must be why men so seldom kill.

You are all deluded on testosterone dreams.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 12th, 2007 5:55pm
I was married to Mommie Dearest. 'Nuff said.
Permalink LeftWingPharisee 
July 12th, 2007 6:08pm
Well, I personally don't know any killers even though I've met plenty of Canadians.

How many do you know?
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 12th, 2007 6:21pm
4.  Two of them were in Pittsburgh, the "Kill for Thrill" murderers.  The other two were at different times in the Military.

People who kill for fun are evil.  They don't have any regard for other people, treating them as "things".  Everything they do is justfied because "it had to be done, given the situation I was put in".

It never ceases to amaze me, though, how abusive a woman can be toward her significant other.  The poor guy is basically defenseless against her words, yet she'll continue to grind him down with negative statement after negative statement.

Then, when the poor guy blows up, she retreats into this "I can't deal with you when you're angry!" position.  Heartbreaking.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 12th, 2007 6:33pm
Man do love things. A man would kill to save the Hubble.
Permalink Send private email 'nuff said 
July 12th, 2007 6:52pm
Nah, the Hubble's just a thing.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 12th, 2007 10:24pm
> Then, when the poor guy blows up, she retreats into this "I can't deal with you when you're angry!" position.

Been there done that bought the book!
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 11:55pm
> People who kill for fun are evil.

I agree with you. Or those who kill 'to see what it is like', not even fun, they are evil too.

> They don't have any regard for other people, treating them as "things".

I agree with you, and I note that the objectification of others is a problem society wide not just in killers. Look at how many people justify outsourcing and capitalism no matter the cost.

>  Everything they do is justfied because "it had to be done, given the situation I was put in".

I do not follow you to this point. There are many things that should be done given the situation, including killing in self defense, that do not make a person evil.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 12th, 2007 11:58pm
SoP, you're basically entrenched in the "Men are violent asshats" position and you're unwilling to see that there are alternatives.  You post something provocative, insult the men, and then you're shocked and offended when they don't all roll over and agree with you.  That's passive-aggressive behavior, and it's exactly the kind of thing that in a face to face situation does lead to unfortunate escalations.  It's intended to frustrate somebody until they explode.

Your premise that all men are violent and destructive is not supported by any evidence.  Certainly, some men are violent and destructive.  So are some women.  The article you cite highlights the extreme cases.  Only a fool or a misandrist would suggest that the article or any other legitimate source of evidence supports the theory that all men are dangerous and violent.

To put is more plainly, which clearly you need, you're being a bitch.  And not in the connotation of a good mother who protects her litter.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 13th, 2007 9:06am
When you look at it deep down, all the societal "norms" and social "mores" are engineered to keep the fairer sex in good humour. It has been known since time immemorial that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Despite continuous effort to ensure there is a level of equivalence between men and women, it is the fairer sex who resort to being the weaker sex as a justification for disproportionate demands made from men in spite of it being known since time immemorial that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. It is truism that the female of the species is the more dangerous.
Permalink Send private email Plus ça change 
July 13th, 2007 9:43am
The above should keep the SoP in good humour. I think I've covered all the stereotypical bases vis-a-vis the Male.
Permalink Send private email Plus ça change 
July 13th, 2007 9:44am
Men may kill out of rage, but I think most killing is less rage and more calculated.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 13th, 2007 10:38am
> you're basically entrenched in the "Men are violent asshats"

And you basically turn away from the nature of men.

> you're unwilling to see that there are alternatives.

The popular alternative is women are really just as violent even though our prisons are littered with men in jail for violent crimes.

Another alternative is there are good men. Granted. No argument. But with a vast majority of men you are one rage away from a black keye and being called a bitch for "causing" this in them.

> you're being a bitch.

Knew you couldn't resist that one.

> And not in the connotation of a good mother who protects her litter.

Your definition of a good women in her place?
Permalink son of parnas 
July 13th, 2007 11:13am
"our prisons are littered with men in jail for violent crimes"

Actually, our prisons are littered with non-violent drug offenders. But I won't deny you your alternate reality.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 13th, 2007 11:21am
> our prisons are littered with non-violent drug offender

There are lots of kind of litter in the prisons, but that would deny your reality.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 13th, 2007 11:26am
> but I think most killing is less rage and more calculated.

I disagree. Watch too much drama on TV, I think, you do. Most killings are far more boring and with insufficient calculated motive to fuel a one hour Law and Order.


I don't doubt women are no less motivated to achieve their goals than men. It's just that like Iraqi insurgents (or American rebels) they are smart enough to discount engaging in battles they cannot win, ie, of direct violent force. They use other methods, sometimes with rage, sometimes not, to achieve ends. Which are criticized by overly manly men, men with but the hammer of brute force in their tool belt, as 'wily' or 'cunning' or 'unmanly'. As if winning is cowardly when there's no blood drawn.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 13th, 2007 11:35am
Women are just as criminal and violent as men, but only when they are menstruating.

This completely explains the much larger male prison population.
Permalink Send private email Erik Springelkamp 
July 13th, 2007 12:26pm
Clay, you know, you don't really have to respond :)
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 13th, 2007 1:06pm
Maybe it's TV, but the crime shows I watch the most are the 'real deal' FBI files, crime and punishment, and all that kind of stuff.

But even the gang banger violence isn't so often fits of hormonal rage.

Even where men kill female love interests it seems to more often be about money, divorce, kids, and exposure (a gf to their spouse) than it is about unmeasured blind rage.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 13th, 2007 6:15pm

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