8, 8 days until Disney! Ah ha ha!

Abortion vs. Foeticide

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6897564.stm

What do you think? I think this "sex lottery" is sufficient reason to ban abortions. But the Indian govt. thinks a register would help. What do you think?
Permalink Send private email (100+85)/2 
July 13th, 2007 1:47pm
Let them implement whatever eugenics programs they want - allow abortions, ban them, whatever...  Why do we care what India does?
Permalink Send private email Ward 
July 13th, 2007 1:59pm
> Why do we care what India does?

Because more boys means more rageful soldiers.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 13th, 2007 2:11pm
with the population of india being what it is, maybe this is the kind of shakeup it needs...?
Permalink Kenny 
July 13th, 2007 2:14pm
sorry: i meant that maybe they should let people abort whatever they want.
Permalink Kenny 
July 13th, 2007 2:15pm
Yes, the foetus gets all shook up. Sometimes stirred even.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 13th, 2007 2:18pm
When you have far more men than available women in a society, the society becomes much more violent and war prone. This is why polygamous societies are more violent. So India has a valid reason to regulate this. Perhaps they will need to cull the unneeded males. It's just sound animal management practice.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 13th, 2007 2:19pm
> This is why polygamous societies are more violent.

Can you back this up?

China for instance was a polygamous society, yet it didn't seem overly violent. More on the contrary I would say.
Permalink Send private email Erik Springelkamp 
July 13th, 2007 2:23pm
My objection to the abortions was more a "ethical/moral" isue - why are boys "better" than girls? I know, I know, in India, dowry and all that. But still.

However, PE, from an evolutionary point of view, less women means almost guaranteed insemination. Ideally, 1:1. If not, isn't it preferable to have more men than women?
Permalink Send private email (100+85)/2 
July 13th, 2007 2:31pm
"China for instance was a polygamous society, yet it didn't seem overly violent."

Thanks for the compliment, but didn't you see Chinese demostrations against Japan a few years ago?

We are violent.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 13th, 2007 2:35pm
And no longer polygamous.

Thanks
Permalink Send private email Erik Springelkamp 
July 13th, 2007 2:35pm
> My objection to the abortions was more a "ethical/moral" isue - why are boys "better" than girls?

So your objection is not abortion, but the gender disparity?

I see, perhaps, one could buy offsets, like carbon offsets .. "I will pay you to abort a male, so that I may abort a female."

BTW, who said there should be a 1:1 ratio of boys/girls getting born? That doesn't match any other data.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 13th, 2007 2:41pm
>> BTW, who said there should be a 1:1 ratio of boys/girls getting born? That doesn't match any other data.

It sure doesn't match the data. But why should an ideal match available data? I feel 1:1 is ideal for the reason the circle was considered the ideal by Plato. It "feels" right.
Permalink Send private email (100+85)/2 
July 13th, 2007 2:45pm
Oh, you just don't know what our ancestors were capable of :)
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 13th, 2007 2:46pm
The data depends on how fragile being a boy/man is.

Males die at a faster rate than females at every stage of life after birth. In day 1, more boys die. In day 2. In day 1000. In day 10000.

Ask a 10000-day female how hard it is to find a good 10000-day male. Females *want* more males to be born.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 13th, 2007 2:51pm
That's an interesting counterexample. So, following this, young men should be encouraged to mate with older women.

On the shortage of women leading to violence, see #2 here which is the latest article to bring it up:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070622-000002.xml

It's not the first I've seen of that though, there have been studies done on this for more than 100 years.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 13th, 2007 3:42pm
"Bare Branches: The Security Implications of Asia's Surplus Male Population (BCSIA Studies in International Security)"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0262582643/

Summary of book's key points:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24761-2004Jul2.html
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 13th, 2007 3:52pm
"Indian scholars have noted a very strong relationship between sex ratios and violent crime rates in Indian states, which persists even after controlling for a variety of other possible variables"
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 13th, 2007 3:54pm
Well, they pretty much abandon widows and divorcees to live under bridges, so they've got a serious problem with *used* women. The OP shows they also have a problem with *unused* women too.
Permalink Peter 
July 13th, 2007 3:55pm
Let the chinese and the indians fight it out.  Whoever wins gets to slaughter the other side and have a lot more babies - boys AND girls.
Permalink Send private email Ward 
July 13th, 2007 4:07pm
great link, PE, I like this ....

"Most women benefit from polygyny, while most men benefit from monogamy"

People often don't realize that monogamy is a program to essentially redistribute wealth (women) among the poor class. 


Also  before we get all too crazy about unsubstantiated numbers of abortions (did anyone actually count the number of aborted females?), there's a direct link between HepB infections and female foetus miscarriages which accounts for some, but not all, of the male/female discrepency:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051109092603.htm

Nature is often wonderfully un-Platonic.
Permalink Send private email strawdog sobriquet 
July 13th, 2007 5:42pm
---"Well, they pretty much abandon widows and divorcees to live under bridges, so they've got a serious problem with *used* women. The OP shows they also have a problem with *unused* women too."------

Sorry, Peter, not up to your usual standard. Details, retraction or fine-tuning required.
Permalink Send private email Stephen Jones 
July 14th, 2007 12:28pm

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