http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070726/ap_on_re_us/tillman_friendly_fire

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."

heh.  I love stories that end with the bully getting a bullet through the head.

They were jealous. Jealousy has the head of a snake and a killer bite waaaaay out of control of the harborer.  Seriously.

People who are jealous of you are so dangerous.  Now combine that with the power you can achieve in the military and a gun.

Deadly.  Tillman was naive, for sure, if he thought he was going to come out of the military without being burnt.

Military people absolutely HATE certain kinds of achievers.  Anyone with natural talent is despised beyond belief.

My brief experience in the military taught me that those who move up through the ranks are people with eyes of the tiger and no talent.  The ones who bang their heads on bricks the hardest, win.

Yeah, that's it. I'm absolutely positive there's no way the guy was a totally arrogant asshole who thought his NFL cred was worth something in combat.

BTW, these were Army Rangers we're talking about - they really don't get jealous of people. They do get pissed off at guys they think will get them killed.

Your "totally arrogant" and mine are probably very different.

For one thing, I can't stand you.  You come across as a TOTAL SHIT.

>BTW, these were Army Rangers we're talking about - they
>really don't get jealous of people.

They're human, right?

"For one thing, I can't stand you.  You come across as a TOTAL SHIT."

s'okay. I think you're a racist bitch with emotional stability problems. But you're *our* racist bitch with emotional stability problems, so I love you just the same.

Group hug?

"They're human, right?"

Ever known a Ranger, SEAL, or Air Commando? Their humanity is debatable.

LOL, Colm.  All of us are speculating.


The military is a very crappy place for talented people.  You can't win.  I'm not talking about myself here.  I'm talking about the handful of doctors, fly-boys, and super smart people I met while I was in. They were always persecuted by people who grunted their way to the top.  Anyone for who things came easily was immediately a suspicious character that the group moved to bring DOWN.

Sounds like high school.

But unlike high school, people have real power.  It is a brutal place to be if you are not inclined to play their games. 

....

Philo, you obviously, buy into it. 

You get sucked into the essence of Philo, happy to associate with someone so smart, and then you find out it is all wasted on the combined disgusting qualities of a lawyer and a salesman.  So he can bullshit you, playing along, smile in your face, all the while claiming no responsibility for shitting everywhere.

Is it possible though, that we were all kind of mislead on this.  I kept seeing on TV how the mother was supposed to be wrong in finding the truth and how many kept saying this guy was a hero.

That is interesting, can't trust anyone these days.

With the robo soldiers, corporation driven military force today I dont know if it is possible for heroes to really emerge.  Plus the fact, we are normally fighting guys in pajamas.

But I do feel bad for those guys that lose limbs and lives doing their job.  My biggest challenge today was deciding if I should go out with coworkers or not.

By the way, the essence of the hate Tillman probably experienced was probably something like "dude you have all this high moral crap and you don't even have to be here, you fucking short-timer. Maybe we didn't give up what you did, but we are special too, dammit!"

This is my real experience.

"Tillman was naive, for sure, if he thought he was going to come out of the military without being burnt. "

nah, he was just a total shit.  talking like that to the chaplain.  hell, Id have shot him through the head as well.

some types of asshat just dont deserve to live.  bullies are definitely one of those types.

>> "For one thing, I can't stand you.  You come across as a TOTAL SHIT."

Sharkfish, you have no sense of self reflection or irony at all, do you?

It is kind of strange.  I don't really think I care that the government tried to hide this.  What is new?  Even the high level officials could say that they were fed mis-information.  But, I am sure they knew what happened.

I am kind of wondering about two things.  How did the media and everyone else not even consider the "fragging" and I wonder what would have caused Tillman to have been shot.  I dont normally think soldiers "frag" that often especially such a high-profile guy.  What, did they think nobody was going to notice?

So we were lied to twice.  I bought the friendly fire thing, I was a little skeptical that such a big guy could have been downed.  This guy was probably one of the few real athletes in the military and he was the only one that got killed.

Hmm.

This guy agrees with sharkfish.

http://www.johntreed.com/Tillman.html

I kinda skimmed it, but can you quote the part that supports that Tillman was intentionally killed out of jealousy because he was NFL?

Jealousy is for lovers. Envy, for bros.

"Most of the times I hear the word “elite” applied to some military unit I think, “I guess everything is relative.” The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels are elite. The Faculty at West Point is elite. The paratroopers, Marines, SEALs, etc. are just some guys who endured a couple of months of extra, royal-pain-in-the-ass, military training, much of which was hazing-style harrassment."

The use of "elite" to entitle these guys to kill Tillman is obviously in question.  LOL.

Things I feel on a gut level, the author in that link describes well.

And I didn't say he was killed out of NFL jealousy.

But... he called a chaplain a sniveling cunt! Surely it's ok to shoot him then?

"But... he called a chaplain a sniveling cunt! Surely it's ok to shoot him then?"

Did you read the article, the way I read it; Pat Tillman called the guy who shot him a cunt.  That is what the guys described to the Chaplain.

I know, I know... I was just trying to be fair and balanced. :P

Sorry, I was paraphrasing this:

"They were jealous. Jealousy has the head of a snake and a killer bite waaaaay out of control of the harborer.  Seriously.

[...]

Military people absolutely HATE certain kinds of achievers.  Anyone with natural talent is despised beyond belief."

I read "natural talent" as indicative of his former job. Sorry if I read that incorrectly.