Reconciling assholes for nearly a decade.

Iraq: The Death of Reason & peace march

OK, so there's occasionally articles about these guys in the news, but their web site is not so well organized and I had quite a time finding their info.

Short story - they think that evangelical christians in the US are full of shit and are worshipping satan by supporting illegal wars and torture and all the other stuff.

Obviously people hate them.

To avoid getting investigated by the IRS, their church is not a non-profit tax church, so the government can't censor their speech like they do with other churches.

Anyway, they are walking from Denver to DC on a "peace walk". They wear orange clothes so that they don't get accidentally run over.

This has resulted in police run ins, who claim they are 'escaped convicts' even though their clothes say "

So here is their stuff.

First, they made a very good 2 hour documentary "Iraq: The death of Reason" indicting Christian America for being hateful people who are doing everything they can to shit on Jesus' message. Here's the documentary:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=78264437790938946

Article on how they were arrested and thrown in jail in Illinois for refusing to show identification documents even though the police had no reasonable suspicion of a crime:

http://www.tribstar.com/news/local_story_195225402.html?keyword=topstory

Video of cop in another Illinois city demanding identification papers from them and then threatening to arrest them for videotaping the interrogation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmKG9UdRQjw

And their web site:

http://www.beitshalomministries.org/
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 29th, 2007 4:38am
even though their clothes say "God is Love" and "Real Christians Don't Choose War" (Hey Clay, sound familiar??)

Photo of their clothes and signs:

http://www.beitshalomministries.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/163.pic.jpg
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 29th, 2007 4:41am
I like this Bible quote from their site which says that religious types who chant 'peace' while promoting war are going to be held accountable for their bullshit:

> Thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who make my people stray; who chant “Peace” while they chew with their teeth, but who prepare war against him who puts nothing into their mouths: “Therefore you shall have night without vision, and you shall have darkness without divination; the sun shall go down on the prophets, and the day shall be dark for them. So the seers shall be ashamed, and the diviners abashed; indeed they shall all cover their lips; for there is no answer from God.”

This is a great verse to show the fucktards at the office who support the war.

(Their analysis at http://www.beitshalomministries.org/blog/?page_id=160)
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 29th, 2007 4:46am
(That was Micah 3:5-7, one of those books in the Bible that no one even remembers is there... needless to say I've never heard any 'christian' quote from it.)
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 29th, 2007 4:47am
the general consensus, even the recent Peter Galbriath article in NY Review of Books (*), is that there would be more bloodshed if the Americans withdrew. So "real Christians are against war" means "real Christians are for staying the course". no?

(*) which calls for withdrawing out of Arab Iraq and moving American forces into a functionally independent Kurdistan (to thwart Turkish or Iranian involvement).
Permalink strawdog soubriquet 
July 29th, 2007 11:33am
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20470
Permalink strawdog soubriquet 
July 29th, 2007 11:33am
> the general consensus

really?

>Odom said that "withdrawal from Iraq" on "a serious and irreversible schedule, is the only thing that will change the polarity of the situation to give this president an opportunity to design a strategy that has some prospect of victory

that's a three star general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Eldridge_Odom

The iraq study group recommend withdrawal.

many politicians recommend withdrawal
Permalink not sure about consensus 
July 29th, 2007 11:44am
> needless to say I've never heard any 'christian' quote from it.

That would imply they read the bible for something other than self congratulatory purposes.

Pretty good movie. Though you just need to read the gospels to know what jesus would do.

I like the guy who said we must trust those in authority and rely on their character. Really unbelievable.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 29th, 2007 11:49am
> The iraq study group recommend withdrawal.

They recommend it for the isolationist reason that it would lower number of *American* lives lost. Not anything about stopping civil war or anything Christian, or "without borders" humanitarian/Samaritan.
Permalink strawdog soubriquet 
July 29th, 2007 12:23pm
Interesting that evangelicals want war in Iraq more than other groups. The history of the US with Iraq was interesting. Good section on the false "incubator" story.

"You don't know what spirit you are of. The son of man came not to destroy life, but to save it." We don't here that one often.

More evidence that Americans are unthinking idiots.

Good section on the turn from Iraq being no threat to Iraq becoming a threat when it was needed.

Good section on the Downing street documents which says the facts have been fitted around policy using lies.

Lots of horrible details on the effects of sanctions and wide spread torture.

Has Bin Laden still not been charged?

Good explanation of the Just War Theory.

Apparently Romans 13, submitting to authority is used for a justification for believing the government. Not so secretly is seems many people simply do not want the responsibility of thinking for themselves or making their own ethical decisions.

Good bit about the ruling authority being the constitution and not men.

Christians are supposed to be sheep for the slaughter. Guess that won't happen.

Those who live by the sword die by the sword. Love your enemy.

American troops no better the previous regime. This is a war of terror. We are the ones using chemical weapons.

Iraqi unemployment rate > 50%.

Ultimate question: why with all the information about how we have been lied to has nothing been done?


These people still scare the crap out of me, but at least they are peaceful.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 29th, 2007 1:04pm
> or the isolationist reason that it would lower number of *American* lives lost.

I don't see that in the report.

http://www.usip.org/isg/iraq_study_group_report/report/1206/iraq_study_group_report.pdf

"The United States should not make an open-ended commitment to keep large numbers of American troops deployed in Iraq for three compelling reasons.....First, and most importantly, the United States faces other security dangers in the world....Second, the long-term commitment of American ground forces to Iraq at current levels is adversely affecting Army readiness....And finally, an open-ended commitment of American forces would not provide the Iraqi government the incentive it needs to take the political actions that give Iraq the best chance of quelling sectarian violence. "


"Because none of the operations conducted by U.S. and
Iraqi military forces are fundamentally changing the conditions encouraging the sectarian violence, U.S. forces seem to be caught in a mission that has no foreseeable end."

On immediate withdrawal:

"Because of the importance of Iraq, the potential for catastrophe, and the role and commitments of
the United States in initiating events that have led to the current situation, we believe it would
be wrong for the United States to abandon the country through a precipitate withdrawal of troops
and support."

On the surge:
"Sustained increases in U.S. troop levels would not solve the fundamental cause of violence in Iraq, which is the absence of national reconciliation."
Permalink not sure about consensus 
July 29th, 2007 1:34pm
not a consensus ... none of these quotes contradict what I said: withdrawing American troops from Iraq would be beneficial to Americans and American interests, it would either be neutral or detrimental to Iraqis themselves.

Protecting Americans and American interests is a fine enough reason to withdraw. But to claim it's the "Christian," unselfish, pro-peace thing to do is .. I dunno, it's not obvious.

"The near-term results [of withdrawal] would be a significant power vacuum, greater human suffering, regional destabilization, and a threat to the global economy." (Iraqi Study Group Report)

What *would* Jesus do?
Permalink strawdog soubriquet 
July 29th, 2007 2:02pm

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