Nobody likes to be called a dummy by a dummy.

I just took delivery of...

a bigass SUV. Big. XXL.

Am I going to burn in eternal hellfire?
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 7:54am
No, hell will run out of natural gas in 2132, so you've only got the hellfire for a century or so.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 30th, 2007 7:57am
Well I'm not sure if it even qualifies as an SUV. It's a 4x4 double pickup with a canopy on the back.
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 8:03am
double CAB pickup... typo
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 8:03am
That's only a 2.7 liter engine.  Most cars here have bigger motors.  For really big, you want a Navistar 7300 CXT:

http://www.engadget.com/2004/09/15/hummer-not-big-enough-for-you-the-navistar-cxt/

>> at the Earth First meeting we went to the other day they told us that the CXT runs on the blood of baby harp seals and even then only gets 15 feet to the gallon. <<
Permalink xampl 
July 30th, 2007 8:22am
There's hardly any cargo space in that pickup because of the double cab.  What the fuck is the point?  You could tow a trailer with something smaller.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 8:39am
"What the fuck is the point?"

The point, dearest muppet, is that I live on 2.5 km of very bad dirt road. The double cab means I can transport my young 'uns as I would in a normal saloon. The load space may not be big for a pickup but it's H-U-U-U-G-E for family vacations. Remember, it has a canopy on the back.
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 8:57am
Ah, so basically you don't need it but you bought it anyway so that you can squander non-renewable resources.

Godspeed!
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 8:59am
It would be cheaper and less ecologically damaging to just pave your own street.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 8:59am
2.5 km is a lot of street to pave.
Permalink AMerrickanGirl 
July 30th, 2007 9:01am
LOL, that Navistar is disgusting. Thanks xampl, I don't feel so guilty now.
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 9:01am
"2.5 km is a lot of street to pave."

2.5 km of street to pave would cost a couple of hundred thousand dollars that I don't have.

It's a private road. We as residents are trying to "contract" the local munucipality into resurfacing it with 8 inches of gravel, but even that is expensive.
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 9:03am
Actually, the link I gave above for the car is wrong. That's the 2x4 with difflocks.

The link below is my car's spec.

http://www.um.co.za/specifications/toyota_hilux_legend35_2700i_4x4_d_cab_(2004).aspx

My penis is now 2" larger, btw.
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 9:11am
If it's a private road, then you got fucked by the builder.  Was the builder you?  If so, you're a jerk.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 9:17am
2.5 KM is 1.5 miles.  1.5 miles is a lot to pave but you could resurface it with a bobcat and some fill, at the least, for less than what you spent on that truck.  Especially if you split the cost with your stupid neighbors (who also got fucked by the builder (you?))
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 9:19am
You'll also have that truck forever, or until you get sick of it (which is usually the same thing for Toyota truck owners).    I've talked to guys who are driving 15 year old trucks and wouldn't dream of selling them.  The trucks do show up on the used market, but they aren't super common, so the price stays high compared to new.

In other words, damned good truck.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 9:23am
In 15 years it'll cost $150 to fill the tank.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 9:24am
Muppet, you're an ignorant jackoff.  Which, of course, you know, but I figured you'd feel neglected if nobody told you that today.

It's less powerful than Toyota's Tacoma, the smallest truck they sell here in the U.S.  The Tacoma gets better gas mileage than most U.S. built passenger cars.  It's also safer than other trucks, which is good for a guy who's going to be hauling the family in it, and definitely better than say a mini-van, which is one of the other vehicles appropriate for this task.

Plus, he won't need to replace this vehicle in 5 years when it's worn out, because it won't be even close to worn out.  So he won't be incurring the energy costs of building a new vehicle and recycling the old, which is absolutely huge.

So it really looks more like he's being responsible here.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 9:34am
BTW, fuel efficiency of that truck looks to be equivalent to 33mpg, which is off the charts for a truck.  My Honda Accord is in that category.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 9:39am
"1.5 miles is a lot to pave but you could resurface it with a bobcat and some fill"

...which is the kind of road you'd need a Toyota truck for if you're going to drive down it twice a day and not have the car in pieces by the end of the warranty period.

Also, no, he couldn't resurface the road, and neither could you.
Permalink Send private email Flasher T 
July 30th, 2007 9:41am
Is this the Toyota truck that Top Gear have found to be indestructible? I think they tried blowing up a building with one inside and they could still drive it away.
Permalink man on the stair 
July 30th, 2007 9:45am
I'm certain one could pave that weeny road with a corn cob blaster.
Permalink worldSmallestViolin 
July 30th, 2007 9:50am
>The Tacoma gets better gas mileage than most U.S. built passenger cars.

This isn't saying much.  This is saying "The Tacoma tastes better than dog shit."

Flasher -

Leveling a surface with fill and a bobcat is something even YOU could handle.

Clay -

If he doesn't replace the thing before 15 years are up, then you win.  Want to put money on it?
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 9:52am
That indeed is the truck.  Which sounds like a good selling point for an unpaved unimproved private road.

I'm not sure that refreshing the gravel is outside of the realm of affordability if someone on your road owns a tractor.  A friend of mine is in a similar situation, although his road is only 1km.  Every few years everybody on the road chips in to buy a truckload of gravel.  He takes the tractor out and spreads the gravel on the road.  They now have a good road again.

The first visit from the gravel truck is expensive though, because you'll be trying to establish a good bed of gravel to begin with.  If there are enough people on the road though, this spreads the cost out sufficiently.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 9:54am
Also Clay, the truck BB linked gets 23.06mpg and that's probably because it's in Africa or wherever the fuck .co.za is and I bet it doesn't have a catalytic converter.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 10:03am
"If it's a private road, then you got fucked by the builder.  Was the builder you?  If so, you're a jerk."

We live on a 20 hectare smallholding in a rural area. It has been a private road for about 30 years. The road has always been an issue for the residents.
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 10:15am
OK so you're just dumb.

I'm planning on buying a house INSIDE an active volcano but it's cool because I'll just buy the family asbestos shoes.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 10:28am
So, muppet, you've never seen rural property development I take it?  BB is in a common situation for rural housing.

Anyway, if you're up for the labor and have the tractor, you might want to look into that BB.  Worked well for my buddy anyway, and keeps his road from becoming impassible in the winter.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 10:29am
Clay -

I'm not saying it isn't common.  Sure I've seen rural developments and rural properties and rural roads.  MY road used to be a dirt road.

My point is that he made his bed so he can't really use it as justification for buying a wasteful vehicle.  "I did something dumb so I had to do something else dumb to make the first dumb thing tenable." isn't really very compelling.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 10:34am
If this vehicle is wasteful you'd best be peddling your ass to work on a bicycle muppet, and getting the kids around town on it too.  It sounds like the perfect vehicle for somebody who lives where BB does.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 10:36am
I get 32 mpg in my wasteful little 4 cylinder hatchback.  I haul lumber, gravel, concrete, shingles, kids, pets, and all sorts of shit in it.  And yes, I drive on the occasional dirt road.

You're right that a big overwrought solu... err.. vehicle is appropriate for the dumb place that Bluebeard chose to live (and not improve.)
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 10:41am
AND muppet lives in a log cabin his FATHER built.  WITHOUT Air Conditioning until very recently, I might add.  So don't try to be more-efficient-than-thou than him.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 30th, 2007 10:44am
Not my point.  But ok.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 11:10am
In fact, the only reason I even mentioned my car is that Clay drew an (admittedly false) dichotomy between Blue's vehicle and mine.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 11:11am
Muppet jumps to unfounded conclusions ("you are a moron for buying that car") and tries to argue the state of the universe into something agreeable with those conclusions ("just pave the road, it will solve your transportation problems").

It used to amuse me, now it's just pathetic.
Permalink zuh 
July 30th, 2007 12:26pm
So, Bluebeard lives on a property that, arguably, he's going to be living on for a good while.  Should he just keep buying moon rovers the rest of his life, or improve his property/neighborhood?

Pathetic?  Not me.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 1:30pm
Eh, it could be mere Economics.

1.  Purchase a $36,000 truck (or whatever) that can drive on the rutted dirt road that's been there 30 years.  Use that truck for 15 years until it wears out, then buy another truck.  Pay for gas at $3.00 a gallon to get 15 MPG.

or 2. Pay $200,000 to have the 1.5 miles paved.  Drive a "more sensible" car that gets 30 MPG and costs maybe $25,000.

In theory, if you could get all the affected people together, it might not take $200,000 from each of them.  Of course, that's probably not the end of it.  Creating a 1.5 mile road of asphalt STILL requires yearly maintenance.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 30th, 2007 1:51pm
There is still that small cashflow problem too.  Pulling $200k out your ass is a non-trivial thing to do, especially when you have to still invest a lot of money every year to maintain it.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 2:28pm
True.  Especially as many car companies are willing to make you a no-interest loan for the price of the car.  Where getting a home-improvement-loan for a 1.5 mile private road might be considerably harder.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 30th, 2007 2:31pm
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wtf? 2.7 ladies??? Not manly! Need 4.5 ladies under the manhood. Let me tell you about manly man manning manly manuals ... here in Manitoba we have the the Manotaur 7300 SXT: manliest of many a maned man's mantasies.

Manifest Destiny!


(This thread reserved for manly manlies.)
Permalink Send private email manly man with mantis mandibles 
July 30th, 2007 2:44pm
Well, I spent a while researching these types of cars and the reason I went with the Toyota is for the following reasons.

1.) Ruggedness. My sedan, which I owned for 9 years prior to this, has spent the last 5 years up and down this road and the car has been made completely kaput by the road. By kaput I mean the suspension. Totally screwed and not worth repairing because it's more than the car is worth.

The Toyota is notorious here in South africa for it's toughness, even though the ride is hard as nails.

2.) Safety. While it's a fact that SUV's have a tendency to roll if you drive them like a moron, this one at least has car-like safety features, eg airbags and ABS. I rarely drive over 100 kmh so I figure I'll be driving within the car's handling limits.

3.) 4x4 ability. We have, on more than one occasion, been forced to borrow our neighbour's 4x4 to get home. There's an uphill stretch of dirt road here that gets slippery in the rain and then you really need 4x4 traction, and this car has that in boatloads with front and rear diffs, plus low range 4x4, the only thing with more traction around here is probably my neighbour's ummm... tractor!

4.) Economy. That may sound like a joke but this car is actually not bad on juice. As long as you don't drag race the thing from light to light it is reasonably economical.

5.) Durability. The 2.7 engine is legendary here for it's reliability and ability to do high mileage. Not uncommon for these engines to do 400-500K without any major overhaul. I keep a car on average for about a decade so that's a factor when I buy one.

6.) I just plain like this car :D
It's a real enthusiast's vehicle... here's a local forum devoted to them that I read a lot:

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=138
Permalink Bluebeard 
July 30th, 2007 2:58pm

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