Nobody likes to be called a dummy by a dummy.

How in hell did this get past Intel marketing pros?

http://penciledin.com/wp/?p=688

What the fucking fuck.

How in this hyper-sensitive age did someone not see this as racist and inflammatory?
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 10:56am
Hmm, guess I didn't see them as bowing to the blue eyed devil until after I read the comments.  I saw racers waiting for the start.  Probably comes of having been a racer at one point.  That and the fact that as a blue eyed devil I could never get anyone to bow down to me except my cat.  Well, not so much bowing as is shorter than me and perfectly fine with flopping over on his side in my path.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 11:00am
I no see no steenking advert.
Permalink man on the stair 
July 30th, 2007 11:02am
I see a bunch of sprinters, waiting for the starting pistol, with the boss standing in the room all proud of his team.

Not sure what you're talking about?  Do you just mean because the runners happen to be black?  So if they had used a stock photo of a white sprinter, instead, that'd be fine?

Seriously, you need help.  Psychiatric help.  Take comfort though, in knowing that you're obviously not the only one.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 11:06am
it is bad, and kind of goes along with one my previous o posts.  To answer sharkfish's question.  I bet nobody throughout the intel hierarchy thought that this was inflammatory probably because of the diversity of the marketing teams at intel.

the only thing where I could see that his is not that bad is that it is the same guy's (racer) duplicated.  Now, if it were several different racers that might be worse.

For example, imagine one white runner and it was clear that his features were being cloned (eg, paralleled).  With the guy in the photo, it looks like a ship from the movie Amistad.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 11:07am
It's not bad.  If you mean "this could be utterly misconstrued by a crazy person or a person with an agenda", then yeah.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 11:07am
To be honest, I don't care.  Black people do so much to make themselves look like complete subservient followers that this ad is not even a drop in the bucket.

I'm just wondering how white advertising executives who are paid to make sure they maintain good PR, could let this flow through.

1. It is a sign that they just don't give a fuck
2.  It is a sign that they think Americans don't give a fuck
3.  It is a sign that the 40-somethings, people from my graduating class, are complete idiots.

Take your pick.  There's no way they didn't see "it".  They chose 1, 2, or 3 above.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:09am
I saw it right away.  I agree with sharky.  Even if you saw them as runners and not people bowing to a white guy, why is the boss white and the workers black?
Permalink the great purple 
July 30th, 2007 11:09am
" Even if you saw them as runners"

Just a note, it is a "runner" and he is photoshop cloned.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 11:10am
> How in this hyper-sensitive age did someone not see this as racist and inflammatory?

That's amazingly bad. What's not amazing is that the white male masters of the universe see nothing wrong with it.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 11:12am
Well, I'm pretty sure that I'd want to redo the add if I was Dell marketing.  Replace the standing white dude with a standing black dude.  Or make it a hot black chick, and then the bowing and worshiping guys make a lot more sense.  Even though they're actually runners in the blocks.

Really want to piss off the people with an agend, rerun the add with a hispanic dude standing in the middle.  Or put hispanic runners in the blocks and a black dude in the middle.  Somebody will burn down the Intel offices then.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 11:12am
lisa lampanelli came up with this campaign.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 11:13am
"I bet nobody throughout the intel hierarchy thought that this was inflammatory probably because of the diversity of the marketing teams at intel."

You mean the token blacks at Intel didn't see it, either?  Or they did, and were too afraid to say something? 

Or they are simply well-adjusted?
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:14am
>1. It is a sign that they just don't give a fuck

I agree.  Why *should* they give a fuck about the infinitesimal chance that some whacko is going to twist this ad into something racist?

>2.  It is a sign that they think Americans don't give a fuck

I laud their optimism.  Anybody who spends 10 seconds calling this ad racist is an asshole.

>3.  It is a sign that the 40-somethings, people from my graduating class, are complete idiots.

Not sure how.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 11:14am
son -

When you DO open your mouth with your own words (finally) it is only EVER to spout fallacies.  My being white and male doesn't disqualify my stance on this.  If you want to call me a Master of the Universe, that's humorous enough, I suppose, but you can't be serious.

Now where's my grass underwear...
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 11:15am
Yea, there are a couple of things that could have been done.  Also, the runner is a dark skinned, bald guy black dude which those that are offended may start thinking about the caricatures in Roots.

If it was an Obama light-skinned guy in dreads (cloned) it may not come off as bad.

But I am kind of with sharkfish.  What was there marketing meetings like.

"Lets have a big, bald, dark black guy and we all know black guys run fast like our Intel servers are fast, lets do it"
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 11:17am
"lisa lampanelli came up with this campaign."

I love her, strangely.  She would say something like:

"The brothers need to get a JOB!  The only reason they have a , you know, _reputation_, for running is because they get so much PRRRACTICE!  You know what I mean.  Anyways, I'll take one of them mandingoes for breakfast lunch and dinner!  Yeah, the blacks.  The white guy is a nerd.  While he's making millions on fucking calculus, the blacks are still runnin' like assholes!  That's okay. I'll fuck the black guy anyday and take the millionaire's Mercedes!"

Okay, she's a lot funnier.  But you get the idea.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:18am
"What was there marketing meetings like." -- maybe this is why the white guy is in charge.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 11:18am
Visually the ad pretty much sucks.  The lighting on the runner is nice and dramatic.  The stock photo of an office interior is somewhat flat and needs a bit more contrast to make it visually interesting.  The white dude in the center is dopey looking and visually at odds with the rest of the imagery.

Also, a little analysis of the photo suggests that there are at least two images of racers used.  I originally thought that it was all the same racer mirrored, but that's definitely not the case when you look at it a little more carefully.  Could easily be the same guy though.

To fix the ad:

1. Ditch the crappy office setting.  Use a better stock photo where the color and contrast don't look so flat.

2. Don't use a dopey looking white dude as the visual center.  Some black stud in a business suit would be good here.  Okay, honestly, I'm thinking Tay Diggs, but he's got something else going.

3. Use colors that work together.  The room and runners used warm colors, then for our visual center we get a pasty white dude in blues and whites.  Yes, he stands out.  No, it doesn't look that good.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 11:24am
It's the dumbest fucking thing I've seen in a while.

If what you saw was "a bunch of sprinters, waiting for the starting pistol, with the boss standing in the room all proud of his team" then did you also not wonder why the sprinters were aimed dead on to one another?  The starting gun sounds and SMACKO these jackasses would plow, (bald) head-first right into one another.  Yup, that white dev.. er, boss sure has a reason to be proud.

Whoever designed this didn't mean for it to be racist... but it is nevertheless.  And appallingly stupid too.
Permalink star wars kid 
July 30th, 2007 11:24am
> My being white and male doesn't disqualify my stance on this. 

Given your abysmally low reading comprehension, what would it matter what I said? I never said your stance was disqualified. I said "what's not amazing." Very different, to the educated.

Imagine your female issue in bright red lipstick kneeling in front of a MOTU. Nothing wrong with that either.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 11:24am
I hope it is real, because it is kind of funny.

They should have a mexican maid or something wiping down the black guy to represent cooking fans or something.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 11:25am
Star Wars Kid, your point is valid.  I was actually thinking that a photo of sprinters in Intel jerseys would have been better.  Have the runners be of different skin tones, but the jerseys all the same color with the same logo.

Unfortunately I think IBM has been running ads like this for a long time.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 11:29am
"They should have a mexican maid or something wiping down the black guy to represent cooking fans or something."

Ah, Bot Berlin wit.  LOL.

Some days you are funny as heck.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:30am
Yup, looks like they need some more "affirmative action" in their marketing departement.

I suppose it was an unfortunate combination of things.  That the image of a powerful, fast runner was black, combined with the 'Nerd' that Intel was going to put in charge of all this power was white.

And then they photoshopped exact copies of the runner (because of course that's what Intel gives you with their multi-processor, exact copies of powerful engines).

Sadly, the end result DOES look like 6 powerful identical black men waitin' to serve pasty white weak massa'.  Which probably a black person in Marketing would have been able to tell them immediately.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 30th, 2007 11:30am
You mean, Intel doesn't have any token blacks in marketing?  How can that be.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:33am
The token ring was an IBM product....
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 11:34am
I don't know why, but this one isn't nearly as bad:

http://www.insomniacslounge.com/uploaded_images/psp_omg-726710.jpg

Perhaps because they are female.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:34am
"You mean, Intel doesn't have any token blacks in marketing?  How can that be."
Maybe every black person working for Intel is too smart to wind up in marketing.  Wouldn't surprise me.
Permalink star wars kid 
July 30th, 2007 11:34am
"The token ring was an IBM product...."

Haw.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:34am
Really, I found that one a lot more offensive, and I'm about as pale as they come.  But I suspect that your analysis of the situation is correct, and the fact that it's chicks makes it less bothersome to you.  The fact that the white chick has grabbed the black chick by the jaw sets my nerves on edge though.  It's visually stunning, but I might have been inclined to fire the person who okayed this for release.

In the Intel picture I can see how somebody could construe racism, even though I didn't see it at first.  This one, the racism jumps out at me, and the aggression bothers me a lot.  My immediate reaction is to pull the white chick off the black chick.  Of course, I'm also not dumb enough to get in the middle of a chick fight.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 11:38am
Fake.
Permalink DF 
July 30th, 2007 11:45am
I"m really hoping someone photoshops that Intel ad.  Starting with Bot's idea, replace the white guy with a Mexican maid.

Next photo, leave the white guy, and put a bunch of white women on the floor bowing to the man--but not in race form.  Just bowing.

Next, put Ida Amin in place of the white guy, or somesuch fascist African war-mongering genocidal dictator.

So many statements to make...
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:46am
This ad denigrates white people.

Puny, pot bellied white guy clearly can't satisfy anyone with his performance, so he has to bring in strong athletic black tube steak to do the job properly.

:(
Permalink Michael B 
July 30th, 2007 11:47am
LOL. 

We could very well turn this into a Viagra or Cialis ad.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:48am
(Remember, modern marketing works by creating insecurity.)
Permalink Michael B 
July 30th, 2007 11:50am
> We could very well turn this into a Viagra or Cialis ad.

DO IT
Permalink Michael B 
July 30th, 2007 11:52am
I don't have Photoshop installed.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 11:55am
Didn't read most of the thread... Sure, you can find that to be evil or twist it into some 'black men bowing to masta whitey' if you really want to.

I think the fact that it made it through shows more that their advertising people AREN'T racist in any way. The thought obviously didn't even cross their minds.

It's like that episode of South Park with the flag depicting a lynching and none of the kids really noticed anything wrong. It was all people with their embedded racism that looked at it that way.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:04pm
Typical white male statement.  "If you don't see it, it isn't there."

Bullshit.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 12:07pm
So you think it is an overt effort to perpetuate the denigration of the black race?

Yeah. That's much better.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:09pm
Really, it needs to be LOLCAT'd.

Surely someone here can think of some caption to misspell.
Permalink Aaron 
July 30th, 2007 12:10pm
> So you think it is an overt effort to perpetuate the denigration of the black race?


What is inbred isn't overt.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 12:11pm
+1 JoC.

There's also a feature of the human brain that, once you have an idea, you tend to cling to it. It's the same action that drives prosecutors, once they have a suspect, to see every clue as pointing to the suspect.

Once the marketeer came up with the "get your staff ready to sprint like an olympian" motif, that's what everyone saw when they looked at the ad. Period. All the incensed folks here were primed with "What was Intel thinking?" and immediately sought out an offensive interpretation, which stuck.

The question is - what does the average person see in that ad when they're not "primed" one way or the other?

I'm sure as soon as someone points out the offensive potential to the Intel marketeers, they'll shit their pants.
Permalink Send private email Philo 
July 30th, 2007 12:14pm
Just when I thought that previous suggestion was the most insane one possible.

So you think somet subconscious racist element in the minds of the creators made them take a bunch of black dudes and have them bowing around whitey?

Fuck. Now that is insane.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:14pm
JoC, be careful. Remember that sharky is one of the most racist members of this place. Arguing equality of the races with her is like banging your head on a wall - it's pointless, and feels really good when you stop.
Permalink Send private email Philo 
July 30th, 2007 12:16pm
If you have to review every piece of publicity ever to be sure it has absolutely no racist connotation, are you diminishing racism, or are you promoting it?
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:17pm
It isn't about being "incensed"

The marketing people just look WOEFULLY IGNORANT. 

How can anyone be so completely separate from society, but be in a marketing department?  How completely ludicrous is it that you are marketing to the world and you have not a clue about culture and respect?

It isn't about sensitivity, either.  It's just courtesy.

Try marketing something to any culture in the world--they require some modicum of respect for their history.

That white people have no respect is why they are called IGNORANT around the world.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 12:18pm
I'm pretty sure the guy on the far back right is white.

His head is in the yuppie's ass.
Permalink strawdog soubriquet 
July 30th, 2007 12:18pm
Well it was sop that suggested some inbred ideal of racism resulted in that marketing...
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:18pm
> Arguing equality of the races

Equality is now defines as a group of black men bowing to a white master. Things really don't change, do they?
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 12:20pm
Equality defines "a bunch of guys bowing to another guy" as an alternative to "a bunch of racers about to run into each other at full speed"

Racism says you bring color into it - it matters that the runners are black and the guy standing there is white.

You know what would be interesting? Get some recent black immigrants and ask THEM if they're insulted by this. Or go to their countries and ask people living there what they think is going on in the picture.
Permalink Send private email Philo 
July 30th, 2007 12:25pm
So, to sum up:
IM RIGHT UR WRONG UR ALL STOOPID

..or something like that.
Permalink star wars kid 
July 30th, 2007 12:27pm
"a bunch of racers about to run into each other at full speed"

Yeah, because *that's* what a company that makes processors wants you to think of...process collisions...

That ad is indeed dumb in many ways.
Permalink Aaron 
July 30th, 2007 12:28pm
> You know what would be interesting?

What would be more interesting is plumb the depths of man's ability to ignore what they don't want to be true, even when it's right in front of them, in black and white.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 12:29pm
I suppose I am not as cynical as I would have guessed.

It goes both ways. Give me anything that isn't monochrome and I be I can point out how one color is being subjugated.

Look at the title bar! It's white-on-black! Wayne's showing his inner desire for whitey to keep the black man under him!
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:32pm
> I suppose I am not as cynical as I would have guessed.

It's not not being cynical when you want something to be untrue.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 12:35pm
And what planet are you from, again?

That edges near the very definition of optimism as I know it, given whatever 'truth' one doubts is an unfavorable one.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:40pm
All I know is.  When I first looked at the link (from here) without any context and looking at the image.  All I saw were 6 bald black dudes kneeling in front of the white guy.  First, I was thinking egyptian slaves or something maybe the ad has something to do with ancient pharaohs.

The first thought that came into mind was white master and slaves kneeling.  I am sure others (white, black, hispanic) will get that same initial same impression also.
And with Aaron, this doesnt even make sense.  One, they are facing each other?  Two, generally racers are competing against each other not working together in parallel.  Independent, parallel "tasks"; how is racing symbolic of that.

I kind of with DF, this might be fake.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 12:42pm
+1 to they don't care.

I doubt they don't see it can be interpreted that way, imo.

If they don't, kudos to them.

Btw, I am very surprised and happy that sharkfish and SoP ignore muppet's over the top personal attack.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 12:45pm
You know, it would make a hell of a lot more sense if they wanted to make a track analogy, is to show a blurry track (for speed) and just one hand handing off a baton to another, like in a relay.

See, *that* would be cool.  Cooperation, speed, smooth handoff...it's got it all.
Permalink Aaron 
July 30th, 2007 12:45pm
> And what planet are you from, again?

Planet vagina. Where we are used to this very same dismissive attitude.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 12:49pm
I was trying to come up with a car racing ad.

I can imagine a car at the pit stop and guys working on different parts of the car really quickly to get the car out of there.  This would work better as a tv commercial as opposed to a still image because of the sounds and showing off the speed of the pit crew.  Also, as a still image, may be a little bit confusing because you may tend to focus on the "stopped" car as opposed to the crew team.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 12:50pm
"Planet vagina. Where we are used to this very same dismissive attitude."

This is why geneder roles are important.

If you were more busy cookin' and cleanin', you wouldn't have time to look for stuff to get your panties in a bunch.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:53pm
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/b/9/6b9cb835af081f80be42bae0a33fce5b.jpg

Another one from reddit.  I will let you figure out the context.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 12:54pm
"Get some recent black immigrants and ask THEM if they're insulted by this. "

But I'm not "recent black immigrants".  I'm most likely descended from, and am included in cultural references to, US slavery history.

As such, some respect is accorded.  If they are targeting a group of people completely outside of American history and its culture, then fine.  Immigrants would have something to say, and perhaps no insult accorded.

But as it stands, Intel must deal with the audience they are dealt, not the imaginary exception to the rule for your straw man.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 12:56pm
> If you were more busy cookin' and cleanin'

We just feed the pigs slop and bed them in mud. Doesn't take long.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 12:56pm
Jump down turn aroun' pick a bale-o-cotton...
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 12:57pm
That's kinda bad. I suspect photoshop on that one.

On the other hand, us honkeys ain't even got a month to get jabbed over.
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 12:57pm
"On the other hand, us honkeys ain't even got a month to get jabbed over."

Who should be apologizing to "you honkies"?
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 12:59pm
"What would be more interesting is plumb the depths of man's ability to ignore what they don't want to be true, even when it's right in front of them, in black and white."

Or the depths of some people's need to have things be true.

BTW, Hanlon's Razor is all over this - does it make any sense at all that Intel, with a fairly clean brand name, would risk this at all? Why would they even bother? It would be one thing if something about a marketing campaign they'd invested years and billions in came up iffy (like something about "Intel Inside"), but a random ad they bought from a marketing firm? I'll wager the contract even has provisions to rescind payment in the event of something like this. So there is nothing to lose for them to go "whoa- looks like slaves. Back to the drawing board with you".

To think that the marketeers (who I'm sure have plenty of minorities and women on the table) looked at it, thought "slaves - cool, run with it" is lunacy. As I said - I'm sure this is purely a case of confirmation bias; once you look at the ad with the idea that it's a bunch of sprinters, that's what you see until someone shakes you and yells "SLAVES, BUTTHEAD"

There are thousands of examples of this kind of thing. Look at one of the "unfortunate logos" image lists where, under the title "unfortunate logos" you have to think "what where they thinking?", but I'm sure when it was pitched everyone saw the happy, business-building image that was intended.

That you and sharky need to see racism and sexism everywhere is a tired old story. I see a lot of racism and sexism, but I do not believe it is as pervasive as you two need it to be. And I truly believe that prancing around trying to incite anger over something that's just a stupid mistake does far more damage than any single ad ever could.
Permalink Send private email Philo 
July 30th, 2007 1:04pm
"Jump down turn aroun' pick a bale-o-cotton..."

You leave Walgreens out of this - we're talking about Intel.

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/6/b/9/6b9cb835af081f80be42bae0a33fce5b.jpg
Permalink Send private email Philo 
July 30th, 2007 1:05pm
I don't see racism and sexism everywhere.

In fact, my OP went with "how did this get past Intel marketing" NOT "Intel people are racist".

I highly doubt that the Intel people are racist.  They are just stupid.

Stupid for not understanding the culture in which they reap billions.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 1:07pm
The real ad, I think:

http://meenu.wordpress.com/2007/03/20/racism-outside-intel-inside/

Indian boss. Not white boss.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 1:08pm
> That you and sharky need to see racism and sexism everywhere is a tired old story.

That you don't see it anywhere is an even tireder story.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 1:12pm
"Indian boss. Not white boss."

They probably had multiple ads.  So, it looks real to me.  Wow, and people are talking about it, too.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 1:17pm
has anyone worked in open duct/HVAC building with 4-foot cubicles?

they could improve performance by getting rid of one or the other.

(i still think the headless guy in the back has lighter skin tone.)
Permalink strawdog soubriquet 
July 30th, 2007 1:19pm
Thank you, SoP, and to a lesser extent Bot and Sharky, for reinforcing the stereotype of the militant self-styled minority.  Thank you for reminding us that everything is always about you.  Thank you for reminding us that this ad really wasn't about buying Intel processors to make your workforce faster, but instead about keeping the darkies laboring on the farm and the women working in the kitchen.

Isn't it just occasionally possible that something isn't about you?  Isn't it possible that nobody gives a good God Damn if you've got a snatch or what color your skin is?  Mostly Intel just wants you to hand over your money, since last I checked money from blacks, whites, men, women, asians and even hispanics all spends the same.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 1:49pm
If they want my money, they better show smart, not stupid.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 1:57pm
Basically, this ad works everywhere, black boss, chinese boss, japanese boss, indian boss.

But not in America?

Personally, it just rubs me the wrong way. I am SO talented and my boss (or the bosses above) take the credit :)
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 1:57pm
The very fact that you see a problem with it and they don't shows that you're the "stupid" one.  The implication is only there if you're racist enough to look for it.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 1:58pm
There are other people who agree with sharkfish. See the comments in other place.

Can we just agree that different people look at things differently and just live and let live?

Anyway, I don't think enough people would care about it not to buy Intel.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 2:00pm
> militant self-styled minority

Notice how one is militant when when goes against the MOTU? Notice how one is self-styled when one gets tired of being second class?

> Isn't it just occasionally possible that something isn't about you?

Isn't it conceivable that some things are?
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:00pm
> The very fact that you see a problem with it

So if I painted your daughters in red lipstick and had them kneeling infront of a MOTU, you wouldn't have a problem?

Yah, I can see that.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:01pm
Nobody's arguing that other people don't think like sharky thinks.  Why is that relevant?  There are lots of people in the KKK, too.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
July 30th, 2007 2:02pm
"The very fact that you see a problem with it and they don't shows that you're the "stupid" one.  The implication is only there if you're racist enough to look for it."

Let's find other flawed analogies like this one:

You're only smart if you see the pattern as Mensa says it exists.

You're only a good coder if you code it the way Kernighan or Ritchie would.

You're only enlightened if you follow X religion.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:02pm
Obviously.  Like this thread is mostly about how Son of Parnas is insecure about her own position in society, and tries to make others insecure too so that she might thrive in the confusion.

How do you manage to find time for all the cooking, cleaning and baby-birthing when you're always shouting about injustice?
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 2:03pm
Muppet, it's always relevant how someone else think.

Maybe it does not matter to you because you are always right.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 2:03pm
> insecure about her own position in society

No shit. Be paid 77 cents on the dollar. Be continually physically threatened by men who use their muscles to get their way. Be called bitch whenever you dare act more like a man. Be passed over even when you are better because you aren't old boy.

What do we have to feel secure about?
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:06pm
No one here is an old boy.
Permalink heartsheep 
July 30th, 2007 2:09pm
Less and less by the day, the more you rant.  Good God, why would anybody want to work with you, the way you bitch incessantly?  You spend more time bitching than I do goofing off, and that takes some work.

So you're being kept down by the man.  What are you going to do about it?  You can piss and moan, which you're obviously good at, or you can get off your ass and do something to change it.

You need not be considered a bitch to get ahead.  Here in Michigan our governor is generally pretty well liked.  She's also a political force not to be fucked with.  She recently defeated a candidate with a lot more funding and the full backing of both state and national republican establishment.    I've met her while I was on vacation, and my uncle goes to church with her.  She's a genuinely nice person.  Even my wife, a die-hard republican who would like to see Reagan canonized and thinks Bush can do no wrong, thinks she's a nice person.

So sure, you're not where you want to be.  But it's perfectly possible to get ahead and be a woman.  Your own persecution complex is something you'll have to deal with first though.  It's a millstone around your neck and prevents you from doing anything to change your situation.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 30th, 2007 2:17pm
> God, why would anybody want to work with you, the way you bitch incessantly?

And so it continues.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:20pm
I don't understand why this conversation is termed "bitching", when the participants are merely pointing out the facts as they see them.

It is a lot easier to whine that someone is bitching than to put together a cogent argument, I guess.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:30pm
Clay's fetish of SOP started before this thread.
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 2:32pm
No, I see this as classic "unintended consquences" being overlooked.  And as Philo pointed out, perhaps some tunnel-vision group-think thrown in for good measure.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 30th, 2007 2:33pm
That's your opinion, Hubble.

I think Intel is just stupid.  They are responsible for a corporate image crafted over decades.

They let some idiot fuck with that.

Stupid.  That's all it is.

You guys want to make something more out of it, be my guest.

I don't give a fuck.

Black people are stupid for not uprising and killing their masters back in slavery times, in my opinion.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:35pm
LOL. Harriet Tubman shoulda had a gun, not the Underground Railroad.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:35pm
> It is a lot easier to whine that someone is bitching than to put together a cogent argument, I guess.

When women don't submit they are automatically bitches and thus are always bitching. We should be happy I guess, even when we aren't where we want to be.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:38pm
Hey, Sharky, I'm with you on this one.  Absolutely I think it's wrong.  The big question is -- why wasn't it caught?

I admit I'm interested in the group dynamics that would let something so obviously distorted be ignored -- but that's a completely secondary consideration.

Rick made a good catch with that March 2007 version that had an Indian "overseer".  Makes it seem like this was part of a series of fubars.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
July 30th, 2007 2:41pm
> Black people are stupid for not uprising and killing their masters back in slavery times

The impulse is correct, but in practice it would have been almost impossible. They would have had to fight a guerrilla war that would have failed for the same reasons we will fail in Iraq and failed in Vietnam.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:41pm
Sharkfish, that's not how stuff's done inside huge companies like Intel.

The head of Marketing, probably an executive VP, does not have time to go over every ads ever produced for Intel.

It looks like the ad is resued everywhere, changing the boss in the middle to appropriate race.

If you are in charge of the ads, what will you do? America has its problem, so will you just don't use the ad here?
Permalink Rick Zeng 
July 30th, 2007 2:43pm
Ahh, yes SoP.

Exception: It worked well against Napoleon in the Dominican Republic--I forget what they called the uprising the slaves won back then...
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:44pm
You assume you are being 'dismissed' when in reality your whining just doesn't have any substance to it.

I can well see how someone can look at that ad and think racism.

What I don't see is what useful purpose that serves at all?

IE: What do you expect to come from your whining?
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 2:45pm
We will boycott Intel. Oh wait, they are a monopoly. Dang.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:47pm
> Napoleon in the Dominican RepublicNapoleon in the Dominican RepublicNapoleon in the Dominican Republic


haha. It wasn't DR and it wasn't Tourette's who led the uprising.
Permalink heartsheep 
July 30th, 2007 2:48pm
"We will boycott Intel. Oh wait, they are a monopoly. Dang."

Monopoly of what?  AMD64 is doing just fine.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 2:48pm
Alright. Haiti.  Same thing. ;p

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h34-np2.html
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:49pm
Good point, Bot Berlin.

So now I'll just convince my employer to dump these Dell/Intel machines and replace them...
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 2:50pm
Voodoo women put a spell on me.
Permalink heartsheep 
July 30th, 2007 2:50pm
> What do you expect to come from your whining?

Only children and women whine. Ever notice that?
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 2:51pm
"What do you expect to come from your whining?"

Stop whining about other people's whining!

And by the way, Milk is for Babies!
Permalink Send private email Arnold Schwarzenegger 
July 30th, 2007 2:53pm
Bloody hardship, that.
Permalink heartsheep 
July 30th, 2007 2:54pm
"Only children and women whine. Ever notice that?"

Nope, but you certainly see it that way. So it is your reality.

Maybe your problem lies more in your perceptions creating your reality than observing what it really is?
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 2:57pm
What is MOTU?

Google gives me "Mark of the Unicorn", and "Blues Guitarist", and "Little Island somewhere in the South Pacific".

Must be something else... :)
Permalink Blue Caterpillar 
July 30th, 2007 3:00pm
"Maybe your problem lies more in your perceptions creating your reality than observing what it really is?"

Napoleon Hill is your man-lover.  Read more crappy business books about creating reality lately?  And you wonder why "The Secret" is so successful.  This bullshit mantra has been bought by every tom dick and harry.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 3:02pm
> MOTU

Master of the universe.

> Nope, but you certainly see it that way. So it is your reality.

The Secret is just BS. If that's your path to happiness then best of luck.

But it does get rid of a lot of problems. If you are hungry then just change your reality. If you are a slave then just change your reality. It's so nice because no change actually ever has to happen and you feel good about yourself.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 3:06pm
I have only ever read one business book called 'Gung Ho!', sharky.

Perception being reality isn't such a well known saying for no reason.

It doesn't mean you can click your heels and wish your way to Kansas. But what the fuck would you want to go to Kansas for anyway?
Permalink Send private email JoC 
July 30th, 2007 3:06pm
At first I thought it was just something that slipped through, but after reading shark's list of 3 reasons, I changed my mind.

The ad was carefully designed to create this controversy so people will be discussing how 'powerful and strong like a black man' Intel's processors are.

The lighting and such are intentionally done badly to add to the effect of an intentionally 'poorly thought out ad'.

I bet you money that blacks were members of the team that designed and approved the ad and they were all in on the strategy.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 30th, 2007 3:54pm
> At first I thought it was just something that slipped through

That was your first made up truth as it is.

> The ad was carefully designed to create this controversy

You've moved on to another truth as it is.

> I bet you money that blacks were members of the team

Of course, being complicit is a requirement of your world view.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 4:04pm
PE: maybe.

But they could have done a couple of things to make it a little bit less offensive (to stupid people, of course).  Make it more evident that the guys are "racers".  Eg, have them (him) looking up as opposed to having their heads completely in the ground.  They look like they are there to lick his shoes.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 4:04pm
son of parnas.  Wow, recently your claws have been coming out.
Permalink Bot Berlin 
July 30th, 2007 4:05pm
"If you are in charge of the ads, what will you do?"

I would put the white men on the starting blocks, with blue shirts and dockers on, in 'ready set pose', but with sweat dripping, and I would put an old white man in the center with his granddaughter, Paris Hilton.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 30th, 2007 5:17pm
I haven't kept up w/ all the discussion and am coming in late, but FWIW: it's no so much the black guys "bowing" that strikes me as racist, but the idea that clearly the black guys are the employees and the white guy is the boss - in this day and age, everyone does the token female, token asian, token disabled person in their groups of employees, so making them all black is a pretty obvious blunder.

And yeah, it's obvious that they're supposed to be runners in the blocks, but what sort of moron would let it go w/ the pointing right at each other?  The message I get is that my new Intel chip will give me a burst of power and then blow itself apart a fraction later when the parts slam together.  Not really the reliability message they probably want.
Permalink Send private email Ward 
July 30th, 2007 5:56pm
> your claws

Oh I see what you did there. Woman == cat.

Yet might let me deploy a talon or two given the extreme arrogance exhibited here. The same arrogance that kept us from intelligently handling Iraq. Men are so sure of their experience and so contemptuous of other's experiences, that they cannot even conceive that life really is different for other colors, other classes, and other sexes. And any gainsaying this world view is met with the same tribal resistance we see here.
Permalink son of parnas 
July 30th, 2007 6:39pm
Bot, yes I agree that they could have made the whole thing a lot more subliminal, like those whiskey ads that would have people having sex in the ice cubes, and the word SEX all over the ad in every wrinkle and shadow.

Strange they'd want to make this so overt, but I do think shark called it, that it's been designed this way for a purpose.
Permalink Practical Economist 
July 30th, 2007 10:07pm

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other topics: July, 2007 Other topics: July, 2007 Recent topics Recent topics