Java is crap, I hate using it but because it pays the bills I have to (for right now anyway).

But, everyday, I think about how painful it is to work with the technology.

Ditto.

But then again, it is so pervasive.  Eg, I use java ides/tools.  I use java servers and some java console applications.  Write java code for the servers

I wonder if python and ruby would suffer from the same general issues (unresponsive, buggy sometimes, resource hog)

As I know, I dont know of any IDEs written in python.  Django/Rails is a good server though.  Dont know about python based console apps either?

The first step in an amicable divorce is recognizing that it is good for both of you.

"The first step in an amicable divorce is recognizing that it is good for both of you."

I like that, you are really becoming wiser.  I wonder if it is the weight-lifting.

Or maybe, I am becoming slower.

Neither.

Sharkfish is always brighter than you...

"Shaking head"  -- Linux, is that you.  You just have a crush on sharkish, your bias.

What about the good things in Java, like the way you can rearrange the class path without having to relink things, or put a modified class file in front of a jar file to temporarily change some code?

Come to the Dark Side, Bot.

I think, as usual, the problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

Dveloping for Java applications can be nice, if the "enterprise architect" are more competent.

"What about the good things in Java, like the way you can rearrange the class path without having to relink things, or put a modified class file in front of a jar file to temporarily change some code?"

That is what I am saying, java has good features, but some that just drive you nuts.  And some not even related to java but related to java created apps.  Eg, Eclipse/WSAD take up 200MB of memory per instance.

Well I'm not fond of you either, you schmuck.

Switch to IronRuby.

http://www.iunknown.com/2007/07/a-first-look-at.html

>> In micro-benchmarks which measure method call performance, we are significantly faster than Ruby 1.8.6. In micro-benchmarks which measure library performance, we are on par with Ruby 1.8.6; we expect to see performance improvements in these benchmarks in the future. In micro-benchmarks that involve raising exceptions, we are slower than Ruby 1.8.6; but if control flow on your program's critical path involves raising exceptions you may want to rethink your design :) <<

One thing that MSFT does well is optimize for the common case.  Their J++ code was much faster than Sun's.

yeah but their J++ code ran on one operating system.

IIRC, J++ was a Java clone.

the second IronRuby, Django, wtf ever esoteric language you care to spew has the support, the documentation, the developer community, the capability/scalability/maturity/portability, the feature set that java has, you will be in the exact same boat. You think anything you write in IronRuby will be maintainable in 12 years? wtf man?

why does no one get this?

Honestly. Is it egoism that you know a language that most don't? Is it the lack of desire to master the platform that you are paid to develop in? I dunno man.

Sure Java has its complexities, its downsides. But on the whole you'd have to be a maroon to tie any corporate project to a language/platform du jour based on personal bias.

J++ broke all sorts of Java specs and could only be run within the MS engine, supported only on windows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_J++

IronRuby is just ruby implenmented on dotNet runtime. It should have the scalability of dotNet.

It's not guaranteered to be good, but I don't think you can't dismiss it quite like that :)

Actually, if you want, use either IronPython or JRuby because they are implemented by qualified people. Not sure about IronRuby though.

the scalability of .Net is impressive. The portability is not :)

Yeah, try to port from WebSphere to WebLogic :)

touche, dude.

tou fucking che.

I feel the same pain.

Its a mutual hate-ness for me and java...:'(.