Stuff like this pisses me off!
So, I get an invite to join a group on Facebook.
Here is the group description.
WARNING: This group is dedicated to "BLACKS" and those of you who feel black...
This is a common interest group for any Africans dedicated to the appreciation of fine dining and fine wine...or whiskey...or bourbon...or brandy...or cognac...or port.
There will be regular restaurant reviews (and how 'they' treat 'us'), tasting notes for wines and spirits...even interesting recipes and food & wine pairings to try out.
Why should a black review be any different from a white one, or a coloured one or a ....
Nope, not joining that one.
we should pretend everyone is the same? even if they aren't? blacks live a different part of the city, eat in different places, and get treated differently by 'them' ... if the want a facebook group -- whatever that is -- to discuss it, fine by me. you're welcome to not join.
July 31st, 2007 6:59am
see, now that is the sort of stuff I do not agree with.
If you had a Chinese Cuisine appreciation society, or a Carribean Cuisine one, fine.
Heck, throw in a <insert local neighbourhood here> Food and wine society. Again makes sense.
To just discriminate on the basis of colour, and send to people dispersed around the globe, is just silly.
Might make sense if you live in the American midwest, and in your city if you go to the wrong restaurant the waiters spit in your food.
July 31st, 2007 8:21am
I think (facebook) groups are a reflection of how people define themselves, or worse, are what people define themselves by.
Many people with dark skin define themselves as 'black'. You, Tapiwa, apparently do not but I'm sure you have something else you use to categorize yourself, 'Whilk drinker' maybe ;)
Just because 'black' has a racial connotation doesn't change that.
This does confirm my idea that racism is something inherently human and part of our social / evolutional behavior.
Locutus of Borg
July 31st, 2007 8:32am
join group, forward requests to a colluding 'white' friend, let them kick him/her off when said friend shows up at events.
July 31st, 2007 8:44am
Tapiwa is from the UK, born. So he has none of the history, baggage, or credibility to speak on race relations in the United States.
We can certainly entertain his opinions, however.
"Tapiwa is from the UK, born."
Actually, Tapiwa is from Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia, which had a long history of race conflict. The whites used to own the entire country until not that long ago. It was in some ways similar to South Africa during aparteid, AFAIK.
July 31st, 2007 10:32am
Of course he knows racism. He's black. But he doesn't understand the perspective of American blacks.
And he's still been a jerk to me, so I have the right to piss on him when I feel like it.
"But he doesn't understand the perspective of American blacks."
How do you know? Maybe he's traveled extensively and spoken to lots of American blacks. And coming from a country where blacks were just as oppressed as in the US, I'd say he could probably relate somewhat.
July 31st, 2007 10:48am
"And he's still been a jerk to me, so I have the right to piss on him when I feel like it."
Is there a reciprocal arrangement?
a cynic writes...
July 31st, 2007 10:56am
It's part of the CoT terms of service. Didn't you return your form signed in blood during a full moon?
July 31st, 2007 11:03am
I don't think this is such a bad thing. I've seen black people treated poorly in restaurants before. Oddly enough, the worst case was when a couple black teens out with their prom dates were given horrible service by a black server. I took care of them, and the kid so much as told me he thought that guy treated them bad because he didn't think they'd tip!
July 31st, 2007 11:04am
OK, if a black couple is mistreated by a black server, why would you think it had anything to do with race?
Maybe the black server just happened to be rude and/or incompetent. Maybe he traditionally treats young people that way, regardless of race, because young teens are usually lousy tippers.
Yes, racism is pervasive, but just because black people are involved doesn't make every situation racism.
July 31st, 2007 11:10am
Based on his level of ignorance, I know, AG.
Yeah but I worked with the guy, and even though I always thought he was a dick, he sho' enuf knew to take care of dem feather and diamond wearin' ladies. I bet he could recognize Armani, too.
Not that I think it was racist so much as just judging money. The thing was, these kids were out on prom night so they are all dressed up. No way to tell about money. He judged wrong. So that particular instance, it HAD to be at least a little about race. Although he did tend to serve younger people more poorly also.
July 31st, 2007 11:16am
"But he doesn't understand the perspective of American blacks."
Whereas Ms. "I used to have a closet full of shoes and drink Dom with the jet set" Sharkfish is in a unique position to understand the plight of the unemployed in Watts and Harlem. Because of her skin color, doncha know - it brings an empathy with anyone who has the same skin color, from Bill Cosby to Chris Rock to that guy with the bottle of ripple sleeping on the bench down the street.
But only if they're American.
July 31st, 2007 11:26am
JoC, spotting kids out for prom vs well dressed and well heeled people is a trivial exercise. If you see my wife and I out in evening dress, we look like we belong in it. The clothing fits properly. It's a different cut. The kids on prom dates look like they're playing dress up. They don't know how to wear the cloths, they don't carry themselves like they belong in those cloths. Rental tuxedos are easily spotted, and the girls are nearly always in dresses that you might wear to prom, but never to the symphony.
>OK, if a black couple is mistreated by a black server, why
>would you think it had anything to do with race?
Presumably that's the reason for the group. So if one person gets mistreated it's a server having a bad day. If it's two, three or four... maybe it's not.
July 31st, 2007 12:03pm
Ok, so you are right, Clay, you can still tell.
Even if the rest weren't true it is still obvious when you have scores of teens coming in all dressed up.
My point was only that black people do get bad service in restaurants sometimes, so a race-based review could be worth reading.
The somewhat ancillary addendum is that I have witnessed such bad service coming from a black man and it certainly appeared to be race based in that situation. I mean, he didn't ignore the white teens' tables.
July 31st, 2007 12:15pm
well, maybe the black teens do tip worse. really, if the black waiter doesn't give black teens the benefit of the doubt, who would? he's probably tired of giving good service and being treated like a chum.
July 31st, 2007 12:22pm
OK, so if a black waiter has learned from years of experience that nearly all black prom-goers tip badly, is that expectation racist?
As a professional, of course, he still shouldn't treat any customer badly, no matter the possibility of lousy tipping. In fact, treating them badly will probably guarantee lousy tipping (self fulfilling prophecy).
July 31st, 2007 12:33pm
I was thinking along the same lines after those posts.
I don't think it is necessarily racist to neglect some less promising patrons and give others better service based on what you think you'll get out of it. That may just be business acumen.
July 31st, 2007 1:38pm