Oops, 7 Days. Hey look I don't update on weekends.

Always hungry...

I switched from Coke/Dew to diet soda about two months ago. I had been drinking probably 2-4l/day - now it's 3-4 cans of diet soda and 3-4l of water a day.

Been going to the gym 3-4 times a week.

I've also cut out snacks and I'm trying to eat reasonably.

I've lost about ten lbs of weight and probably put on 10-15 lbs of muscle (not as much as it sounds - remember that I'm 6'4)

But lately I am hungry ALL THE TIME. I skipped lunch today, so I ate large sub (more than I shoulda). Four hours later I was ravenous again.

I'm guessing it's the absense of soda that's doing it - any physiologists wanna guess? :)

Philo
Permalink Philo 
August 15th, 2005
I'm not a pnysiologist but I'd guess what you're experiencing is related to a higher metabolic rate as a result of increased muscle mass and activity level. You'd probably benefit from eating small meals 5-6 times/day. Your overall caloric intake would be the same but you'll avoid the extremes of hunger and being stuffed.
Permalink Doug 
August 15th, 2005
Soda is crap. Diet soda is even worse for you. And don't even get me started on sugar alcohols (you haven't been eating any low carb foods, have you?)

Let me get this straight. You changed your diet, changed your exercise routine (e.g added one), changed your eating schedule (skipping lunch), and you wonder why your body is acting differently?
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 15th, 2005
What Doug said.

But also, if you were seriously drinking 2-4L of soda a day, then that is a TON of calories that your body was used to expecting. If you replaced all that with water, but haven't been eating more otherwise, then it's not that surprising that you're feeling hungry.

As long as you have a schedule that allows it, eating several small meals or snacks in a day is usually a good way to go. Snacking can be a good thing as long as you're eating decent food with some nutritional value such as raw almonds or an apple instead of a candy bar or a bag of Cheetos. If it comes in a vending machine, you should probably avoid it. I also liked MarkTAW's rule of thumb to basically try to eat what's around the edges of the supermarket and avoid all the aisles in the middle.

Sounds like you're doing a good job of drinking enough water...gotta get better at that myself.
Permalink bionicroach 
August 15th, 2005
" and you wonder why your body is acting differently? "

No, I'm pretty sure that's it - just doing a sanity check. :)

Philo
Permalink Philo 
August 15th, 2005
Don't over-over do it. But, drink lots and lots of water, possibly gallon+(or at least I do).

Eating, to some degree is psychology, so by drinking the water you sastisfy that need to put something in your body. And, assuming everything else works it just exits your body.

But, like anything else, over-over-over doing it isnt good. Basically, 9-10-12 glasses of water a day is ok.

If I die from drinking too much water, I will give you a heads up.
Permalink Berlin Brown 
August 15th, 2005
Mark> And don't even get me started on sugar alcohols (you haven't been eating any low carb foods, have you?)

Mark, could you please tell more about this (or give some links)? Do you mean that low carb is not latest and greatest anymore?

I'm a chocolate addict. And I like beer a lot. So, any information about the goodness of carbs is highly appreciated :)
Permalink Nick Kodov 
August 15th, 2005
"Soda is crap. Diet soda is even worse for you."

How do you figure? I appreciate that artificial sweeteners are looked upon with suspicion, and like all artificial things there is some presumption that they might cause cancer, but apart from that a diet soda is basically some coloured water -- from a physiological perspective you're drinking a can of water. What's wrong with water?
Permalink Dennis Forbes 
August 15th, 2005
Try using a tool to fitday.com to see how many calories you are eating. You may not be eating enough. Generally exercise doesn't make you hungrier, so I don't think that's it. Also look up the book volumetrics. It talks about how to feel full for fewer calories.
Permalink son of parnas 
August 15th, 2005
You were drinking 2-4l of soda A DAY? Assuming 1/3l per can, that is 6-12 cans of Coke/Sprite/7-Up/Pepsi or whatever in a single day? I can hardly take that in. I tend to believe that one can a day is excessive given the sugar content.

Remember that even with diet sodas, they can pack a big shot of caffeine. Don't know if it's any worse than coffee though, and I drink four mugs of coffee a day and rarely any water, so I'm not one to preach.

As far as hunger goes, I can't really advise. I long ago learned how to go 6-8 hours between meals without feeling hungry. Maybe you're right. Maybe drinking all that soda trained your body to expect a constant sugar intake to meet its energy needs and now you are suffering withdrawal symptons. After a while, your body will probably be re-educated to draw on internal energy reserves instead.
Permalink Ian Boys 
August 15th, 2005
But lately I am hungry ALL THE TIME.
------------------------
It's not rocket science, for gods sake - you're not eating enough. Eat more.
Permalink Blech 
August 16th, 2005
I drink 2-4L of beer a day.
Permalink anon for this one... 
August 16th, 2005
Actually, caffeine is a diuretic, and I always cancel out any soda I'm drinking as not really being water, but I know people who only drink soda, so that can't be completely true, that's just how I think of it.

The Caffeine FAQ is extremely informative.

http://coffeefaq.com/caffaq.html

I haven't read it, but the Aspartame FAQ looks interesting (though may be biased):

http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/aspfaq.html

Sugar alcohols are just miserable. About a decade ago, they introduced this artificial fat called "Olestra." I believe a potato chip was manufactured using it under the "Olean" brand name. One of the side effects of consuming too much Olestra was "anal leakage." The same is true of sugar alochols, and any low carb candies I've ever consumed (I know people on low carb diets, so they were lying around), have given me a serious case of the runs. Really unpleasant.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
Yesterday my friend told me Sweet N Low creates formaldehyde in the body. Turns out it's true. This is from the FDA's website:

"It is true, says Hattan, that aspartame ingestion results in the production of methanol, formaldehyde and formate--substances that could be considered toxic at high doses. But the levels formed are modest, and substances such as methanol are found in higher amounts in common food products such as citrus juices and tomatoes."

- http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1999/699_sugar.html
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
sweet 'n' low is (or maybe was) saccharin. equal is nutrasweet (aspamartame (sp))
Permalink mb 
August 16th, 2005
*shrug* I don't know which is which. I kinda assumed Sweet N Low wasn't aspartame because it was around so long, but I'm not a coffee drinker so I don't know the difference. I'll correct her, though.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
Philo - you're taking in a lot less calories than you used to and burning off more. Of course you're hungry.
Permalink a cynic writes... 
August 16th, 2005
And if anyone is suffering from "anal leakage" that would, no doubt, make an interesting thread on ?off.
Permalink Joel Goodwin 
August 16th, 2005
One clue might be "I skipped lunch today". It may sound obvious, but try not to go *too* long without eating. Making sure you don't skip meals will reduce your chances of this.
Permalink Fernanda Stickpot 
August 16th, 2005
Oh, yes, and - cutting out snacks is a reasonable target, but you may be trying to do too much at once.

If you're hungry between meals - and I mean, like, REALLY REALLY REALLY hungry, so that you keep hallucinating that you see your cubemate on a platter with an apple in his mouth - that is a sign that it's time for a snack. Grapes, walnuts, and a little hunk of bleu cheese is ideal. Maybe with a square of >=70%-cocoa-type chocolate.
Permalink Fernanda Stickpot 
August 16th, 2005
If you're skipping lunch, your body will go into "low power" mode, slowing down everything including the burning of fat.

Eat just enough to keep running at 100% metabolism, but not more as the excess will be stored as fat.

This is the essence of "many small meals a day."

Also, don't skip breakfast, or you'll start the day in "power saving" mode.
Permalink Alex 
August 16th, 2005
The only problem with "many small meals" idea as they tend to get larger over time.
Permalink a cynic writes... 
August 16th, 2005
Bring some string cheese to work. Consume at 10am and 3pm to give your stomach something to do.
Permalink example 
August 16th, 2005
WTF is "string cheese"? Is that something American? Do I want to know?
Permalink Mick 
August 16th, 2005
"Hey Tony, gimme a pizza... But hold the tomato sauce."

"Hold the tomato sauce?"

"And hold the crust!"

"Hold the crust???"

Polly-O String Cheese. It's the best part of the Pizza.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
Philo:

In my experience, the Aspartame used in diet soda's made me feel hungry, no matter what else I was eating. Were I you, I'd cut out the diet soda's (replace with water, perhaps tea -- home-made iced tea is very nice. Don't do the canned-tea's, they're just as bad as soda for sugar content).

Tea is also a diuretic (makes you pee), and has caffeine, and some flavor to it.

And "string cheese" is basically Mozerella cheese, in the form of sticks of cheese in a plastic wrapper. Once removed from the wrapper, you can "peel" the cheese into stringy strips (one of the properties of Mozerella) -- thus "string cheese". Personally I just eat them like a raw carrot -- bite off small chunks. All that peeling becomes a pain. I believe the "Polly-O" company created with product with "Polly-O String Cheese" -- but it's basically just a repackaging of Mozerella.
Permalink AllanL5 
August 16th, 2005
> WTF is "string cheese"? Is that something American? Do I want to know?

It's this cheese that tastes like nothing, has a lot of calories, and comes in a convenient package.
Permalink son of parnas 
August 16th, 2005
> In my experience, the Aspartame used in diet soda's made me feel hungry,

I haven't felt that. Fructose however, unlike sugar, doesn't produce an insulin response so you don't feel full from drinking fructose sweetened drinks.
Permalink son of parnas 
August 16th, 2005
Yeah, one of the points of Fructose is to make you hungry so you eat more...
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
I don't know if Aspartame is bad for you or not, but why not drink sparkling mineral water instead of soda? After all, water is known to be good for you.
Permalink Fernanda Stickpot 
August 16th, 2005
"water is known to be good for you"

Water? Nasty stuff. It is found in tumours removed from cancer patients; in 2000 64 people died water-related accidents; it contributes to the greenhouse effect; in vapour form it can cause severe burns; it's a major component of acid rain; it causes massive soil erosion; prolonged exposure can cause tissue damage; it leads to metal corrosion and electrical fires; and even accidental inhalation of small quantities can cause asphyxiation...
Permalink Mat Hall 
August 16th, 2005
What scares me is that Mat came up with that list off the top of his head... I'd hate to see what he can do with a paperclip.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
And remember what WC Fields once said about the fish in the water ...

Eat wholegrain bread with honey for carbs. Drink up the water (never mind the fish) and some fruit juice.

And a sub won't kill you it's got salad and a bit of cheese in it.

Go for quality, not quantity.
Permalink trollop 
August 16th, 2005
mmm...4l of coke = 1680kCal or slightly over half the recommended daily intake for a man. Cutting it out completely is probably the most effective part of your diet. Better for your teeth too.
Permalink a cynic writes... 
August 16th, 2005
As others have said, eat more often. This is basically my daily intake:

6:00am: Breakfast = cereal (a mix of two cereals usually + milk) + big glass of water

8:00am: Banana

10:00am: granola bar, or just granola (good fats, protein)

Noon: lunch (sandwich, pita chips with hummus, some veggi (brocoli, carrots, etc.))

2:00pm: Apple

4:00pm: some snack before I leave work.. whatever I have left in my lunch cooler
Permalink Jared 
August 16th, 2005
MarkTAW,

The "leakage" problem you refer to has since been corrected, IIRC. Now the incident rate is no higher than normal potato chips.

Now, what level of anal leakage is "normal" is left as an exercise for the reader.
Permalink Pseudo Masochist 
August 16th, 2005
Mat stole his list from the campaign to ban Dihydrogen Monoxide.
Permalink muppet 
August 16th, 2005
"Don't do the canned-tea's, they're just as bad as soda for sugar content"

After living in Japan for a year, this became one of my biggest pet peeves about American soft drinks.

Go into a Japanese convenience store and you can find like a dozen different kinds of UNSWEETENED bottled teas. If I remember correctly, one of them was called "16 Tea", and was literally a blend of 16 different kinds of tea.

When I tried American bottled "tea" again, all I could taste was highly concentrated sugar with barely enough water to keep it in liquid form.

Something to think about when wondering why the U. S. of A. has the world's highest obesity rates.
Permalink Jim Rankin 
August 16th, 2005
> I'd hate to see what he can do with a paperclip.

Mat can walk into a room and see 50 different ways to kill you.
Permalink Alex 
August 16th, 2005
Jim, when I lived in Japan I lost interest completely in fizzy soft drinks. I miss the still drink bias prevalent in Japanese convenience stores. Also, drinks with high sugar content are just too rich for me now.
Permalink Joel Goodwin 
August 16th, 2005
I've hated sugary soft drinks for years, now. I drink mostly seltzer water or just plain water. Gatorade isn't too bad because the sugar content is relatively low when compared to most of what's out there.
Permalink muppet 
August 16th, 2005
I miss heated coffee machines. Also beer machines. :)

The diet soda is helping wean me off of sugared soda. I'm doing my best to drink as much water as possible, but when I need something with "taste" (or my options are a soda machine or a water fountain), then I'm doing pretty good sticking with diet soda.

But I will work on weaning myself off them as well.

Thanks for all the opinions - I'll definitely focus on eating consistently through the day.

Philo
Permalink Philo 
August 16th, 2005
One more suggestion: while you wean yourself off sugary drinks and onto water, why not add some fruit juice to the sparkling water?

One definite disadvantage of aspartame is that it's a bazillion times sweeter than sugar. It gets you accustomed to levels of sweetness that are just way off the scale.

The fruit juice may have calories, but it also has some nutritional value and will help you to grow accustomed to much more reasonable levels of sweetness. You might find it a more satisfying way to taper off.
Permalink Fernanda Stickpot 
August 16th, 2005
Yeah I find most juices (Tropicana for example) too sweet and concentrated to drink in great quantity ... so I cut them, like 1 part juice to 2 or 3 parts water, to flavour a few-pints-per-day of mostly-water.
Permalink Christopher Wells 
August 16th, 2005
Quick, someone get Philo the http://www.beermachine.com/ .
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 16th, 2005
We still have those godawful coffee machines (dispense hot coffee, dispense cream, dispense cup) where I work now, and we had them in my last office, too.
Permalink muppet 
August 16th, 2005
"Also beer machines. :)"

Another area where Japanese civilization is superior.
Permalink Jim Rankin 
August 16th, 2005
We have an espresso making machine here in our dept. lounge.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~coffee/

The machine is a slightly older model of this:

http://www.concordiacoffee.com/2500iproductpage.htm

It actually makes rather good lattes.
Permalink Jim Rankin 
August 16th, 2005
Why Jim, I didn't know you are at Carnegie-Mellon University. And good old Wean hall, too. I was there in the 1980's. Good times.
Permalink AllanL5 
August 16th, 2005
Muppet, I don't know if you've been to Japan or were just kidding around, but when Philo said heated coffee machines, he meant machines that vend sealed cans of hot coffee in the same way that other machines more typically vend cans of chilled soda.
Permalink Ian Boys 
August 16th, 2005
Sealed cans of hot coffee?

Ow?
Permalink muppet 
August 16th, 2005
Uh huh.

Take can out of slot...ooh!-ah!-ooh!-ah! as you bounce it from hand to hand...pull the ring pull and drink nice hot liquid (to pretend it actually tastes of coffee is to stretch credibility a bit too far).

Actually, due to the miracle of Japanese technology the can comes out at exactly the temperature that is just bearable to hold without the danger of blisters.
Permalink Ian Boys 
August 16th, 2005
Not when it's 10 degrees F outside. Nice pocket warmers.

And Mark, THIS is a beer machine:
http://www.johnharveyphoto.com/Japan3/Shikoku/GiantSizedBeerVendingMachine.html

Philo
Permalink Philo 
August 16th, 2005
>> When I tried American bottled "tea" again, all I could taste was highly concentrated sugar with barely enough water to keep it in liquid form. <<

Don't come to North Carolina, then. That's pretty much the description of sweet iced tea -- the official state drink.

To make it, you have to put the sugar in when it's hot because when it's cold the needed amount of sugar won't dissolve (super-saturated solution).

Surprisingly, our dentists-per-square-mile ratio isn't any higher than the other states. But we are known for kidney stones.
Permalink example 
August 16th, 2005
> why not add some fruit juice to the sparkling water?

I did the "replace coke with fruit juice" thing without checking the calorie content of fruit juice.

Ooops. No wonder that didn't help.

If you add enough to be worth the bother, you're adding quite a few calories.

Diet sodas are killing the fat faster than they're killing me.
Permalink  
August 16th, 2005
If the tea were really super saturated, then the act of popping the cap should cause a cascade of sugar to precipitate out of solution, no?
Permalink muppet 
August 16th, 2005
Only if there's a nucleation point.

Philo
Permalink Philo 
August 16th, 2005
Mmmmm, caffeine and sugar...

Tommy Atkins' five best friends were a cup of tea and four sugars.

And if you're Greek, or just visiting, try a glykos:

http://www.faliraki-info.com/susie/greek-recipes/beverages-bottling/greek-coffee.htm

But the USA has a lot of corn sweetener (as a result of a lot of corn) to lose in pop:

http://www.fao.org/documents/show_cdr.asp?url_file=/DOCREP/005/X4988E/x4988e20.htm


Losing a sweet tooth is very difficult (I know, I know  .... just wait, you'll lose them all) so it helps to have sugarfree snacks such as nuts or fruit to hand to forestall rambling off to the drinks or snack vending machine. I ate a lot of apples and mandarins when I inhabited a cubicle.
Permalink trollop 
August 16th, 2005
That's right. The fruit juices may be calorific, but

a) they're not full of high-fructose corn syrup, which is fatogenic in a special way; and

b) they're to be used as a stepping stone, not as a lifelong daily replacement for soda. Eventually you will be drinking just water.
Permalink Fernanda Stickpot 
August 17th, 2005

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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