Canadians, who are you voting for...
...for me, I'm voting for anyone but the Republi.. err.. Conservatives.
that means you are voting for the Liberals, right?
I myself wouldn't mind a Conservatives minority.
I voted NDP last time (I'm in Svend Robinson's old riding). The Liberals barely lost this riding to the NDP last time but I doubt they have a chance now.
I think the Conservatives look like the best bet. The Liberals have lost all credibility, and Paul Martin is such an empty populist these days that he has no reputation left to capitalize. The Liberals have become to comfy in power, and the corruption that results is pretty obvious.
Regarding the Conservatives being like Republicans - that's just silly. Even the most right-wing Albertan is a world to the left of most Democrats in the US - it's just a fictional contrast that leads to that sort of association. Couple that with the fact that all parties end up being largely the same when they have the realities of power, and any fear mongering is just misguided.
I would like to see this country built less around placating Quebec, and to have a more democratic representation (a 3-E senate would be a very good step. The current fluffy patronage get paid tonnes to live in Florida is unbelievable).
One funny thing - A writer from BC wrote a national paper the other day complaining that he, and the rest of the West, was sick of the "socialist agenda of Southern Ontario" being pushed down their throats. I could hardly contain the gut busting laughter reading that coming from someone from BC. It also made me laugh that he thought that policy was dictated by Ontario - we're the least catered to province in Canada. We're, basically, taken fron granted.
"Even the most right-wing Albertan is a world to the left of most Democrats in the US - it's just a fictional contrast that leads to that sort of association"
That's a subjective judgement and I am sure many would disagree.
"That's a subjective judgement and I am sure many would disagree."
Hey there's going to be a conservative government soon enough, so the manufactured boogyman of a Southern Ontario propped up Liberal government will be gone. I'm sure the perpetual-victim type in Alberta will invent something new.
Well, for one thing, if the conservatives gain power abortion would become illegal.
(Yeah, that basically what Martin said on CBC last week)
Conservative myself, though to be honest I wish there was a party running on a platform of less government rather then more. All the parties are promising big new programs with big new spending, but at least the Conservative child care program doesn't introduce a whole new bureaucacy like the Liberal one. I also wish there was a party that would actually bring some new ideas to perennial problem areas like health care instead of the standard solution of throwing more money at it.
"The Liberals have become to comfy in power, and the corruption that results is pretty obvious."
Agreed. The Liberal party needs to be shaken up a bit.
"Regarding the Conservatives being like Republicans - that's just silly. Even the most right-wing Albertan is a world to the left of most Democrats in the US"
When was the last time you were in Alberta. They are way out of step with the rest of Canada. Remember the Conservatives wanted to go to war in Iraq, they're against gay marriage.. how much more of a comparison do you want?
It seems quite likely that had the Conversatives been in power around 9/11 Canada would have troops in Iraq. It also seems pretty certain that if the Conversatives win we'll get all those lovely tax breaks. You might want to say that "all parties end up being largely the same" but clearly there are some big differences.
"I would like to see this country built less around placating Quebec"
I don't have big problem with placating Quebec because I'm for more provincial powers. I believe that money is far to centralized at the federal level which also is the main complaint of the Quebecois.
"When was the last time you were in Alberta. They are way out of step with the rest of Canada."
They have the illusion of being out of step with the rest of Canada, and a myth of solidarity that doesn't actually exist. Albertans are a vast mix of political leans, but because they identified with Western alienation, many rallied behind one very mixed banner. When that flag is flying in Ottawa, they're going to find that, what do you know, they aren't alike as they really thought they are. History is rife with examples of the illusion of similarity because of a common "enemy" (in this case "Eastern Canada"). I mean I keep hearing BC getting lumped in with Alberta, but BC is Yin while Alberta is Yang - they are so dissimilar that the Western Alienation thing is all that lumps them together.
"It seems quite likely that had the Conversatives been in power around 9/11 Canada would have troops in Iraq."
Doubtful. Words are cheap when you're the opposition, and it's easy to take whatever position is contrary to those in power. This has gone on for time eternal. You know, like the Liberal's villification of GST...but when they got in power it actually looked like a pretty good idea.
What a party says from the opposition side of the house often has little correlation with how they actually govern.
"It seems quite likely that had the Conversatives been in power around 9/11 Canada would have troops in Iraq."
I think we do have troops in Iraq?
Anyway, no matter how I vote a current cabinet minister is going to win my riding.
They are all such pathetic lying losers that this will indeed be the hardest vote I've ever been involved in.
The conservatives, no way, not with what they have planned. They're idiots, plain and simple fucking morons.
The liberals, no way, lying cheating thieving mutha fuckers. "I'm entitled" kiss my ass you are!
The Blok ... fuck off, seriously ... NO.
The NDP, that wanker _would_ suck a noodle ... probably for free.
The rest ... paaaa, give me a break losers.
It'll all come down to the last minute ... standing in the box trying to figure out which complete lying untrustworthy self indulgent piece of shit idiot is going to do the least amount of damage to the country.
Part of a huge email i got about voting conservative (will post the whole lot if you want - i like this part though):
In 35 of the past 37 years, Canada has been ruled by:
(1) Pierre Trudeau - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
(2) Brian Mulroney - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
(3) Jean Chretien - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
(4) And now we are going to vote for Paul Martin???? - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec???
The leader of the Conservative party, Stephen Harper, is:
(1) Not a lawyer.
(2) Not a multi-millionaire.
(3) Not from Quebec.
Just this is is somewhat convincing fortunately listening to what the party plans on doing if they come to power promptly negates it.
I'm not sure what Western Alienation has to do with Albertian's being "out of step" with the rest of Canada. Alberta is far more conservative than British Columbia and even a bit more than Saskaschewan. That makes them out of step. There is no illusion of similarity between western provinces against the common enemy of Eastern Canada.
"I mean I keep hearing BC getting lumped in with Alberta"
Then you don't live in BC!
"Words are cheap when you're the opposition, and it's easy to take whatever position is contrary to those in power."
True. However, the Liberals took a stand to be against the war in Iraq -- it would have been far simpler to go along. The consequences of not joining the war in Iraq are (and were) numerous for our relations with the US. I don't see that the Conversatives would have made that choice.
"You know, like the Liberal's villification of GST...but when they got in power it actually looked like a pretty good idea."
Politicians always promise things they cannot deliver -- elimating the GST was one of those things. That is simply a promise however, not a core ideal of the party. If anything, greater taxation is a core ideal of the Liberals (specifically towards eliminating the debt) and one should not have expected otherwise from them.
might as well go to the pub, you from the peoples republic of british columbia?
I am still undecided.
I am waiting for Stephen Harper to do something 'stupid' and screw his chances. Something stupid includes allowing Stockwell Day to remain in the party and occassionally spout off to the media.
Herper reminds me of Dalton McGuinty -- not really full leadership material but the inevitable conclusion for one election but damn will we ever regret it...
So many comments...
+1 PNP - No more millionaire/billionaires from Quebec
+1 Dennis - the Conservatives aren't comparable to the Republicans.
-1 Dennis - "we're the least catered to province in Canada. We're, basically, taken fron granted." Ha ha ha, have you ever heard of proportional representation? That thing we don't have in the west?
+0 O Canader - Harper's probably ok, he's managed to keep the more extreme party members under control, he's managed to avoid anything that would let the Liberal attack ads have much effect.
-1000 Rick - it won't be that easy to make abortion illegal, and in the end they'll probably ignore the issue.
-1,000,000 Svend "I'll steal a $40,000 diamond but get off by whining and crying" Robinson - I had the immense pleasure of voting agains him (I live downtown) _and_ that idiot Hedy Fry today (advance poll, I'll be too busy next week). I can't even remember the name of the Conservative candidate, but I was always going to vote for him.
Overall: I'm sure the Conservatives will have their share of hypocrisy and screwups if they get elected, but we _know_ the Liberals will screw up and be hypocrites, so it's time for a change. Also, I'm a big believer in one of the basics tenats of conservativism: that big government is bad, that our existing huge governments should be trimmed back so that they take and spend less of our money. The Conservatives are the closest to that, e.g. the whole daycare issue.
I'm a small believer in "big government is bad" but I also don't think all that free market stuff actually works.
Unfortunately the Conservatives are not for smaller government and the whole daycare issue is the perfect example! They want to take our money from us, run it through a big bureaucracy, and the give it back to us "as a gift"! That's just pandering to the electorit. Yes, they'll give us money as long as they control it with their big government.
Anyway, I feel the whole tax cuts / refunds thing is total bullshit. No tax cut will ever amount to more than a few hundred bucks in my pocket and the result will likely be devistation of some more social programs or a government deficit. Either way, that's hardly worth it for me.
"-1 Dennis - "we're the least catered to province in Canada. We're, basically, taken fron granted." Ha ha ha, have you ever heard of proportional representation? That thing we don't have in the west?"
We have proportional representation in the East?
PR is one of those funny election tricks that people pull out when it favours their pet party. When the Conservatives (who Ontarians put more vote towards than every other province in Canada combined in the last election, but you wouldn't know that from the "Ontario is so dumb" letters to the editor) yield a majority with 36% of the popular vote, somehow I doubt its supporters will still be calling for PR.
"Unfortunately the Conservatives are not for smaller government and the whole daycare issue is the perfect example! "
Added together, the Conservatives have a budget that's significantly larger than even the NDP budget, and several promises haven't even been added in yet. Ultimately I think they're a lot like Dalton McGuinty (as someone mentioned) - They're promising the moon, and then when the sober reality of leadership actually happens, they'll have to get more realistic.
>>> and the whole daycare issue is the perfect example! They want to take our money from us, run it through a big bureaucracy, and the
No, the daycare thing is about the only example of any party giving us our money back to spend on our own priorities. The money they're planning on giving back is already being taken away by current taxes, it's not new money that will be grabbed and run through the beaurocracy.
WTF are you doing up at 3am Dennis? It's obviously addling your brain - does anyone actually think that any party is going to keep a measurable number of their promises? I voted Conservative because I am conservative (prefer small, very local government wherever possible) and they are as close as any major part comes.
It wasn't _that_ long ago that we had an obnoxious (Progressive) Conservative government, so I'm not really expecting great things from Harper, but hoping he won't be as bad.
Well, Dr Hedy "burning cross" Fry isn't really an idiot, just a typical lefty who should join NDP.
A nice side effect is to get the head tax issue resolved.
It's a sad day if Emerson or Dosanjh loses. But I don't think anyone would miss Raymond Chan.
"WTF are you doing up at 3am Dennis? It's obviously addling your brain - does anyone actually think that any party is going to keep a measurable number of their promises?"
Isn't that exactly what I said? The Conservatives went into this thinking they didn't have a chance, so they promised everything to everybody -- just like the Liberals did in Ontario politics. Then the scary reality that the public bought it occurs, and they have to start to get real.
That's it exactly Dennis. Did anyone really believe Dalton McSquinty when he said that he would lower class sizes to 25 max in the public school system. Anyone who has been near a school in the last 10 years nows that almost all of them already have portabale (which I think Dalton promised to get rid of). Where were the extra kids gonna go?
Someone on same-sex marriage "They are way out of step with the rest of Canada."
Actually, look at the polls. From a majority point of view, it's the politicians / judges that are out of step with the rest of Canada. If you happen to agree with them (and I'm just not going there), then that is all very comfortable etc, but it does not mean that those who disagree are "out of step" when they are the majority ;)
Voting NDP won't have 0 effect on the outcome unless you live in a high profile MP riding (and they aren't NDP...). Minority government blah blah blah. Not to mention the $1.70 or whatever that goes to the party for each vote.
Personally, I wish we could vote for a particular outcome. I'd like a minority conservative government that requires the support of two out of the three opposition parties. I'd like Paul Martin and Jack Layton to fail to gain their personal seat (because I'm malicious that way). Last time I wanted to see all four leaders lose their seats; I guess Harper is growing on me or I have some respect for the campaign that was run so far.
I'm still undecided, although it will either be conservative (but I'm not really a conservative at heart, even if I do own a company and ought to be) or the green party (because the candidate in my riding is fantastic).
We were considering "ballot eating" as a form of protest - didn't you always want to commit a "serious offense" under the elections act, but I haven't been able to determine if the ink and paper are gluten free.
Maybe I should sue for discrimination ;)
January 17th, 2006