Reconciling assholes for nearly a decade.

sharkfish working with Joel...

http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.287725.18

`Because I like the famous person who owns the shop (please don't ask, I'm dying to tell but I can't yet).'

Sharkfish trying to get in on the FogCreek management training program?
Permalink Bwahahahaha 
January 10th, 2006
Id hire her, so long as I could be sure she didn't actually chatter. I *hate* people who chatter, and she sounds to me as if she *might* be a chatterer.

otherwise Id hiire her...shes smart, opinionated and geek.
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 10th, 2006
She's also extremely negative, can be a tad unrealistic ("I'm going to write my own OS, and you skeptics just don't see the light"), perpetual claims to be persecuted, tends towards self-aggrandizement, among a variety of other demonstrated "qualities".

She mentions in that thread that she wants to get respected based upon her postings on here, and I find that hilarious. She should try towards absolutely anonymity based upon what she's said on here.
Permalink Hahahahahahaaha 
January 10th, 2006
"She's also extremely negative, can be a tad unrealistic, perpetual claims to be persecuted, tends towards self-aggrandizement, among a variety of other demonstrated "qualities".


right. Im assuming she has some negative qualities as well though.
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 10th, 2006
The thing is, it's not like IT programmers are shock jocks that can command hefty salaries because of their coding skills. Also, shock jocks have a lot of responsibility to their sponsors and rarely call sick days unless they are really sick.

I don't see the equation where you trade skills for money with no loyalty involved. Heck, look what happened to Terrel Owens, and I like the guy.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
Thanks Jesus H.

I do have some negative qualities. Let's list them, shall we?!

1. PMS once a month means any male specie without empathy for my special situation is subject to castration on the spot

2. I don't talk in the morning before 10:30am.

3. After 10:30 AM, I talk if it is a user. Or if a manager makes me talk.

4. I work from 9:15ish to 5:30 or 6PM. Any attempt to change that will be met with "well fire me then." I do make exceptions for meetings and such. I don't fall asleep until 2 or 3 am so it is difficult to be an early bird.

5. I require all males to pick at least one subject to talk about besides sports and poontang when we chat as "buddies".

6. If you don't want to hear about dumbass red staters, don't talk about Bush in my presence.

7. I learned pointers back in 1999 and never used them since. I have the grades from Berkeley programming courses to prove it, but don't ask me about them. I have to look it up.

...

Positives:

1. I work til the job gets done, period.

2. I deliver what I promise and if I can't you know early on.

3. I don't know lots of stuff. You know I don't know stuff, I know I don't know stuff. That doesn't prevent me from learning on the fly, which I do regularly.

4. I am very flexible with the workspace. I have worked in mildew infested dark rooms, with stinky guys who fart a lot, patient with users who don't know what "dat compooter stuff duz".

5. I am fiercely loyal if you inspire my admiration. That means you have to trust me, too.

6. I am good with design/architecting ideas, coming up with work-arounds that get the job done. Just don't ask me to do much complicated SQL. I can do it, but I don't like it, so I'm inefficient at it. At least you know.


....

But in the end, you won't like me much if you don't like to debate issues and have to be right all the time. Let me be right some of the time, and you get the best from me.

:)
Permalink sharkfish 
January 10th, 2006
"I am fiercely loyal if you inspire my admiration."

Is that really describing loyalty? I can't think of many people who don't qualify as being able to say that sentence.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
I dunno. I wasn't aiming to define loyalty. Notice also, that I expect trust in return, too. It's some baggage I have, I guess.
Permalink sharkfish 
January 10th, 2006
Yeah, I haven't figured you out. ;-P

I figured you had some secret mistrust of anything legal or contractual, but you signed something before that interview, so there goes another theory of mine hehe.

I have figured just a few basic things about you. You are nice over the phone, not like how you talk sometimes here. You have a geekiness which seems unusual in a woman. You aren't afraid to try something new. You are capable of great composure in your ideas and your speech when you want to.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
"Is that really describing loyalty? "

it describes personal loyalty, not 'loyalty to the company'

...frankly I never understood 'loyalty to the company' anyway, whatever that concept signifies, its worthless.
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 10th, 2006
"Notice also, that I expect trust in return, too. It's some baggage I have, I guess."

Usually, if I say something that sounds intelligent, it's the culmination of a bunch of ideas that I came up with long ago. I may only be presenting it as if if I just thought of it.

Likewise, if I call you an "idiot" because of something you just did 30 seconds ago, it probably means I am trying to point you in some other direction. Wait, no, you were smart up until now, but suddenly became stupid. I don't think so, and neither should the other person.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
"it describes personal loyalty, not 'loyalty to the company'

...frankly I never understood 'loyalty to the company' anyway, whatever that concept signifies, its worthless.""

So, let's say you own a co. and it's had a bad quarter, how much loyalty do you expect from your employees in this situation? This is a real-world question. Are you going to lose all that talent in the off-season, or are going to give take some sangfreud approach, or whatever that word is, or que sera, sera!

So loyalty is a non-issue to you, and when your employees beat feet, you are like "You go girl!", I musta had a great company to have lost someone as good as you!
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
"So, let's say you own a co. and it's had a bad quarter, how much loyalty do you expect from your employees in this situation? This is a real-world question."

seems like a stupid question. I expect them to stay so long as (a) I can pay them and (b) they want to.

"Are you going to lose all that talent in the off-season"

?? I dont understand the question. Ill lose those who chose to go.

"So loyalty is a non-issue to you, and when your employees beat feet, you are like "You go girl!", I musta had a great company to have lost someone as good as you!"

*company* loyalty is meaningless to me. when my employees decide to move on, I give them every help I can.

I do not expect an employee to stay beyond the point that they are getting back less than they are putting in.
How they judge that is up to them.

I have a suspicion you are an idiot. certainly you are asking incredibly stupid and boring questions.
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 10th, 2006
"Notice also, that I expect trust in return, too. It's some baggage I have, I guess."

When I pull out a pea-shooter, I appreciate the other person not pulling out a handgun. Crazy of me, I guess.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
"*company* loyalty is meaningless to me. when my employees decide to move on, I give them every help I can."

That's right. Friends are friends, but business is business. lol.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
So when your employee decides to look for a job, and such an occurrence is not initiated by you, you help them find it? Are we talking about your business and money here? Wow. I guess being your friend does have it's advantages.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 10th, 2006
"So when your employee decides to look for a job, and such an occurrence is not initiated by you, you help them find it?"

heh. I have no idea. oddly enough none of my employees have ever asked me to find them a new job.

I suspect I would help as much as I could...not that much really since I dont know many other developers here in NZ.
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 10th, 2006
Man, this site. Any hesitation in my internet connection and the Joel site doesn't want to load. But other sites will at least load slow for me. Dang, it's a little late now.

Oh, BTW, I know what you're saying JHC, I was just being overly clever myself.

"But in the end, you won't like me much if you don't like to debate issues and have to be right all the time. Let me be right some of the time, and you get the best from me.

:)
"
It's not even that. I'm learning to post accomplishments, and not every step or idea, because those things change. Still, I can find accomplishments to report on a daily basis, more or less. I guess the striking thing to me is that you like to either post a lot or not at all.

I couldn't even follow that post on the main Joel board; it just seemed to me to be a lot of posts from different people on the subject of how ego's need to be treated. Where is the knock-on-wood reality in any of that? What happened to empathy? I mean, so much ego in one post, I find it overwhelming.
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 11th, 2006
"I require all males to pick at least one subject to talk about besides sports and poontang when we chat as "buddies". "

Do guys like that *really* exist? Where are they? I guess I do a great job of avoiding them...
Permalink Star Wars Kid 
January 11th, 2006
I thought the other topic that men know and can discuss is "beer".

Sports, poontang, beer. Yep. That about covers it.
Permalink example 
January 11th, 2006
Well this is the question at hand, then. If two people are not relating as friends, then what does it matter that they each understand some tech idea in the other's head.

To put that another way, Let's say that someone (to stretch the example) had the tech brain of a Woz, but could only relate to 50% of the population as beer-guzzling, sports-following, poontang hunters, and therefore no longer worthy of interaction on a "personal" level. I forgot my point. lol. Oh yeah, is this someone worth sucking up to just because they make you feel cared for by expressing similar technical or vocational concerns? ;-P
Permalink LinuxOrBust 
January 11th, 2006
"Do guys like that *really* exist? Where are they? I guess I do a great job of avoiding them..."

Yes, in the MidWest. Any male under 30, in my region, in particular.
Permalink sharkfish 
January 11th, 2006
Ok so who is it sharkfish? Sounds like you didn't get the job, so who is this great person? I can't think of any individuals in Chicago that would be famous (assuming you didnt fly somewhere for an interview).
Permalink Phil 
January 11th, 2006
"Ok so who is it sharkfish? Sounds like you didn't get the job, so who is this great person? I can't think of any individuals in Chicago that would be famous (assuming you didnt fly somewhere for an interview)."

I don't know whether I got past the first round because, as he said, I am the very first interviewee (I believe that). I can't say who until I am officially rejected. I will say that it is somewhere in the midwest and not someone/some company you will be able to think of so don't even try to guess.
Permalink sharkfish 
January 11th, 2006
"A very famous persons company" in the midwest... and I couldn't guess it? There are only a handful of such people. Warren Buffet? Jessie Jackson? Kohls? Donald Trump? (has some property in chicago) Eric Sink? Oprah Winfrey?
Permalink Phil 
January 11th, 2006
Is he a legend? :)
Permalink Colm O'Connor 
January 11th, 2006
> can be a tad unrealistic ("I'm going to write my own OS, and you skeptics just don't see the light"), perpetual claims to be persecuted, tends towards self-aggrandizement

She and Joel should get married.

Oh... Waiiit...
Permalink  
January 11th, 2006
<g> I can see the way Colm's mind is going. He's definitely someone I'd like to work for.
Permalink  
January 11th, 2006
Phil:

Nope. And I'm not gonna say even if you are warm. Bwaaahaaaahaaaaa!
Permalink sharkfish 
January 11th, 2006

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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