A bunch of cunts, mostly in the Australian sense. Except that one guy.

remember when america wanted a constitutional government?

They didn't tell people waht drugs they could buy. They didn't need a nanny government to protect them from every risk. They thought the 4th ammendment was a good idea and that being president wasn't a good enough reason to do whatever you want. They thought fiscal responsibility was the way to go and throwing the first punch is what bullies did. They thought the content of your character mattered more than your political party or your religious affiliation. They thought paying your fair share was the honorable path rather than looting the government for everything they could get.

I don't remember that america either, but it still seems like a nice goal.
Permalink son of parnas 
January 12th, 2006
"They thought fiscal responsibility was the way to go and throwing the first punch is what bullies did."

Except with the indians... and the spanish....and the mexicans....

"They thought the content of your character mattered more than your political party or your religious affiliation."

Except in Massachussetts where you are specifically ordered to worship God in their constitution. And the two party system has always been there, GW warned about it.

But otherwise, yeah you're right about some of your issues. I thing the turn was around 1913... when the federal income tax was started. Oh and all the immigrants. Frickin' immigrants. And we all miss the America our forefathers intended where only white males had the power.
Permalink Phil 
January 12th, 2006
"They thought the content of your character mattered more than your political party or your religious affiliation."

Ah... those are pretty close to the words of one of my personal heros... Reverend Martin Luther King Jr:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Unfortunately, it has been deemed legal by the Supreme Court - yet again - to be legal to discriminate based on the color of their skin.
Permalink KC 
January 12th, 2006
Well, 's.o.p', it sounds like you remember that America quite well. Well said.

And we're all immigrants, really. The Native Americans immigrated over the land-bridge 12,000 years ago or so, and the whites immigrated starting in the 1400's up to the present day, etc. etc.

Though I agree in the name of "Manifest Destiny" lots of wrongs were done, and in the name of slavery even more wrongs were done.

True, since Reagan the political discourse in this nation has become (or remained) bitter. People claiming Government can do nothing right, then voting billions for the military. People claiming to be Libertarians and free marketers, then voting for bailouts for cars, planes, steel. People claiming to be fiscally conservative, then voting multi-hundred billion dollar deficits year after year.

Ever since FDR, the Republicans have been trying to dismantle the New Deal. They've largely succeeded by the way, but Social Security still remains the popular 'third rail'. No matter what the wealthy say, enough people believe a safety net is needed to support it.
Permalink AllanL5 
January 12th, 2006
"True, since Reagan the political discourse in this nation has become (or remained) bitter. "

Historically, the discourse was much worse in the mid-1800s, but its always been bad...people just remember things with rose colored glasses. Once we have something more important to worry about, say a gas crisis or war, people will come together again (like after 9/11). Unfortunately with nothing to worry about we pick on stupid stuff, and since we have this big ass military we start a lot of shit too.
Permalink Phil 
January 12th, 2006
"Once we have something more important to worry about, say a gas crisis or war, people will come together again (like after 9/11)."

I was here before, on, and after 9-11 and other than the *week* of it (aka while body parts were still being pulled out), it was the same as always.
Permalink KC 
January 12th, 2006
"True, since Reagan the political discourse in this nation has become (or remained) bitter. People claiming Government can do nothing right, then voting billions for the military. People claiming to be Libertarians and free marketers, then voting for bailouts for cars, planes, steel. People claiming to be fiscally conservative, then voting multi-hundred billion dollar deficits year after year.

Ever since FDR, the Republicans have been trying to dismantle the New Deal. They've largely succeeded by the way, but Social Security still remains the popular 'third rail'. No matter what the wealthy say, enough people believe a safety net is needed to support it."

Wow. Talk about a liberal (little 'l') manifesto. I must admit - very well worded for something that's a completely leftist diatribe. :)

For the record, FDR was a socialist and the New Deal was pretty much wholly unconstituional. Welfare belongs to the states.

And Social Security isn't a "safety net" - it's considered a retirement program by most.

Philo
Permalink Philo 
January 12th, 2006
> For the record, FDR was a socialist

If socialism is being pro good working conditions, a 40 hour work week, and helping you not starve, aren't you a socialist?

If you read the socialist platform it was hardly radical by today's standards of decency.

And that's exactly what what the republicans want to dismantle.
Permalink son of parnas 
January 12th, 2006
Actually, FDR wasn't a socialist. He was good buddies with "Uncle Joe" Stalin and a non-trivial number of his top advisors were active in the Communisty Party and supporters of the USSR.

You know... the USSR who had already starved 5 million Ukrainians in the 30's.
Permalink KC 
January 12th, 2006
You do know what the second "S" in "USSR" stands for, right?

Philo
Permalink Philo 
January 12th, 2006
So the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" is.... ?

And the "People's Republic of China" is... ?

And the "Republic of Cuba" is... ?
Permalink KC 
January 12th, 2006
You do know what type of economic/political system has a strong central government which controls every facet of the markets, production, employment, transportation, and pricing, right?

Hint: it's not communism.

Philo
Permalink Philo 
January 12th, 2006
> You do know what type of economic/political system
> has a strong central government which controls every
> facet of the markets, production,
> employment, transportation, and pricing, right?

You must mean the bush administration.
Permalink son of parnas 
January 13th, 2006
Yeah, sure. Feel free to duck the issue. ;)

Philo
Permalink Philo 
January 13th, 2006
Actually, I have to ask - did you really think that slamming the Bush administration would in some way inflame or annoy me?

Philo
Permalink Philo 
January 13th, 2006
I think it's "State Socialism" which Marx thought would be a transitional stage. Other 19th lefties thought that was utter bollocks...
Permalink a cynic writes... 
January 13th, 2006
Didn't mean to open a can of worms, there.

I do think most people want some 'retirement plan' besides, or in addition to, Social Security. That's why 401K's are so popular, and why today's 20 to 30 year olds don't want to depend on Social Security.

Well, NOBODY wants to 'depend' on Social Security. That's why I call it a safety net. That's why SSI is called Insurance, not called a 'Retirement Plan'.

But thanks, Philo, for pointing out the small-l 'liberal' bent there.
Permalink AllanL5 
January 13th, 2006
> did you really think that slamming the Bush
> administration would in some way inflame or annoy me?

I don't really give a thought to what will annoy you. It's interesting that you think that it might though.
Permalink son of parnas 
January 13th, 2006
>>>If socialism is being pro good working conditions, a 40 hour work week, and helping you not starve, aren't you a socialist? <<<

I've never heard that definition of socialism.
Permalink argon 
January 13th, 2006
So why the heck would you bring it up?

Philo
Permalink Philo 
January 13th, 2006

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

Other topics: January, 2006 Other topics: January, 2006 Recent topics Recent topics