Sanding our assholes with 150 grit.

Why I hate rap music

Not because it sounds bad, some of it does, but it's about the same ratio as any other genre.

I hate it because a large body (I'm tempted to say majority) of the message encourages unsustainable life choices. For every one person who sees rap music for what it is (entertainment) 5 more see it as an affirmation of least-effort life choices. The "bling bling and hos" message celebrates pure decadence as the apogee of existence.

Decadence is all fine and dandy. But it's not easy to sustain and a decadent lifestyle drains resources from those around you who choose to live in sustainable way.

Lifestyles of decadence have a real cost to non-decadent society. The cost manifests as the insulation of sustainable society. This insulation can take the form of of laws, prisons, drug busts, racism, intolerance, and any number of other plagues on the human condition.

There's a whole bunch of problems in the world and this is just a minor quibble on the global scale. Commercial music in general has a net negative effect of society and I generally hate it as well. This is just something that's in front of my face everyday and it's pissing me off and I had to vent. The end.

Disclaimer: Some rap doesn't concern itself with the themes expounded above. Some rap has a positive message.  I'm mostly targeting the gangsta rap scene and the culture surrounding it.
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
lumberjack,

That was a very inappropriate post. There was a better, more polite way of expressing your displeasure. You could've have politely said something like, "Nope, I just don't want my children listening to rap music. There is no hatred." and no one would feel offended.
Permalink Sathyaish Chakravarthy 
March 16th, 2005
Grammar correction
===================

>and no one would feel offended

and no one would _have taken offence/felt offended_.

Sorry!
Permalink Sathyaish Chakravarthy 
March 16th, 2005
> encourages unsustainable life choices

Mom, please don't post here. It is so embarrassing.
Permalink son of parnas 
March 16th, 2005
Not that it's any of my business, lumberjack, but how old are you?

IMO, there are three kinds of music:

1.) Real music
2.) The kind of music you listened to as a kid because you knew it drove your parents nuts.
3.) The kind of music your kids listen to now because they know that it's driving you nuts.

At least you're keeping some perspective about the big picture though. That'll keep you off the short road to Old Fogeydom... ;-)
Permalink cubiclegrrl 
March 16th, 2005
"""
Not that it's any of my business, lumberjack, but how old are you?
"""

28

"""
IMO, there are three kinds of music:
"""

I'm getting a real "It's just music, chill out" from that.

I'm hoping to
1. Write a post
2. Get it picked apart
3. Gain perspective and be enlightened
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
lumberjack, I can easily see the transition from 1 to 2, but how does the one from 2 to 3 come about? :)
Permalink Steamrolla 
March 16th, 2005
> I hate it because a large body (I'm tempted to say majority) of the message encourages unsustainable life choices. ... Commercial music in general has a net negative effect of society and I generally hate it as well.

By way of contrast, is there any music at all, anywhere, ever, that IYO has a net positive effect on society? "We shall overcome"?
Permalink Christopher Wells 
March 16th, 2005
Chuck D (from Public Enemy) had similar thoughts recently:
http://www.uaf.edu/sunstar/archives/20050301/chuckd.htm

Gotta love corporate music...
Permalink Tayssir John Gabbour 
March 16th, 2005
One could argue the same things about country music...and as an added bonus, country music actually _does_ sound bad.
Permalink Kyralessa 
March 16th, 2005
lumberjack: Apologies if you thought that I was really going for the jugular, instead of a bit of teasing. You're right in that it doesn't really add too much to the discussion.

Seriously, I'm 37, and I'll confess that the hip-hop that spices the local heavy metal station kinda gets my back up, as do the juvenile troglodytes that DJ it. But I also know that popular music has been celebrating decadence *at least* since the troubadours sang the joys of courtly love (i.e. extramarital sex with a lot of slobbery poetry involved) in the Middle Ages.

I guess that, at the bottom, I don't buy into the idea that for every 1 person that can draw the line between fantasy and reality, there are n more that can't and will drag down society. I would say that it's more of an n:1 thing than 1:n--and that n is a fairly big number.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, myself. I'd probably take it a little more seriously if I did. I just have two nephews that make their Mom (an ex-big-hair-heavy-metal groupie back in the 80s) bonkers with Korn, Slipknot and the like. She thinks it's the fall of civilization; I just think it's karma, and I cackle like the Wicked Witch of the West. {evil grin}
Permalink cubiclegrrl 
March 16th, 2005
"""
By way of contrast, is there any music at all, anywhere, ever, that IYO has a net positive effect on society?
"""

Cubiclegrrl did a good enuff taxonomy of music. See point 1


"""
One could argue the same things about country music...and as an added bonus, country music actually _does_ sound bad.
"""

I almost wrote about both because some country music really pisses me off (The whole Iraq War - Boot in Your Ass song and all that) but my fingers got tired.
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
"""
Apologies if you thought that I was really going for the jugular, instead of a bit of teasing.
"""

No, not at all. I came across all wrong. I always like your posts. You essentially said what my boss says whenever I bring up the subject, "It's just music".

That's what I'm looking for. I want some people to give me their takes on the post so I can broaden my perspective.

"""
I would say that it's more of an n:1 thing than 1:n--and that n is a fairly big number.
"""

Listeners for this type of music are probably tied more to an age group (market segment of 15 - 19 years) than I realize. Most everyone just outgrows it. So I can definitely see the 1:n. I still think it has a negative effect but the enormity of it is probably in my imagination.

And thanks for the link Tayssir, Chuck D is awesome.
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
Yeah, Chuck D is one to watch out for. He had a debate with Metallica's Lars Ulrich about copyright:
http://www.rapstation.com/promo/lars_vs_chuckd.html

Apparently Chuck and guys like Beastie Boys are doing stuff with Creative Commons. Because "the industry over the past fifty to sixty years has been Accountant and Lawyer driven and it hasn't been about the artistry."
Permalink Tayssir John Gabbour 
March 16th, 2005
Just read the link Tayssir.

Why can't we have more people like Chuck D. He's adaptable, argues for art, away from busines, and on top of that he smacks down pretentious twits like Lars.

And anybody that verbally smacks Lars around needs to be cloned.
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
Personally, I'm just waiting for the day that corporations start paying for product placements in rap songs (if they're not doing so already).

I think the difference between rock and rap is that rock music is _rebellious_ while rap is nihilistic. No other form of music has ever been so obsessed with consumerism. And really, what could be American and conformist than going out and putting yourself in debt to buy an Escalade or trendy clothes?
Permalink dave 
March 16th, 2005
> I hate it because a large body (I'm tempted to say
> majority) of the message encourages unsustainable life
> choices.

Yes, damn that television/government/all advertising.

or

Yes, damn that rockstar lifestyle.

or

Yes, damn those red states/blue states.

oh, I have it:

Yes, damn that America.
Permalink MarkTAW 
March 16th, 2005
Yes, damn those sarcastic/ambiguous moderator posts.

That's it, I'm moving to Canada.
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
Product placement already takes place. Couple years ago Nelly had "Air Force One" about his shoes. Some other rapper recently said "I gotta give a shout out to Hennesy, cause i drink it and they payin me for it." It may have been some other liquor, don't remember for sure.
Permalink Tim 
March 16th, 2005
lumberjack, so what's the difference between rap music and The Sound of Music?
Permalink Li-fan Chen 
March 16th, 2005
fukna
Permalink hoser 
March 16th, 2005
I think we've already established that there will be no more serious discussion, so...

The Sound of Music is a movie that will eventually be remixed by Puff Daddy in the medium of rap music.
Permalink lumberjack 
March 16th, 2005
D'd'd'd'd'd'doh a d'deer a f'''''' deer ...
Permalink trollop 
March 16th, 2005
I'm waiting for enough time to pass for him to rip off one of his own albums. Double royalties baby.
Permalink MarkTAW 
March 16th, 2005
Well here's a serious comment. I'm not much interested in rap as a style for published music but as private music and when its used in rapping duels then it can be pure poetry and sometimes very good.

Samuel R. Delany Jnr, had the concept in a number of stories, including 'Time Considered as a Helix of Semi-Precious Stones', which won a Hugo, of Singers. Singers would spontaneously begin to sing about what was going on on the street, or some event or cataclysm and although what he was thinking about in the 60's was probably closer to Jazz, Rap in its highest form performs that kind of role.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 17th, 2005
Has anyone here seen that Eminem movie 8 Mile? It was surprisingly good. In the extra footage, they talk about a montage scene where he's battling all these other rappers. They filmed it with the other rappers actually singing, but Eminem had his mic turned off because he needed to save his voice.

One rapper said some nasty shit about Eminem, which is normal, so Eminem made them turn the mic on so he could retort. Damn he's good at what he does.

One of my friends is a hip hop artist, and it amazes me how these people freestyle. Putting together words that have a rhythm, rhyme, and meaning that fast is an impressive skill.

I'm going to write some rap songs about saving the environment and some folk songs about banging 12 girls in the back of my H2.
Permalink MarkTAW 
March 17th, 2005
Uh, uh, yeah, uh, uh, c'mon (aw!)

<add reference to how women find me attractive here>

Uh, uh, yeah, yeah

<add reference to fast car here>

Uh, uh
Permalink Roger Hammerstein 
March 17th, 2005
HA HA HA HA HA Roger Hammerstein. Funny. I hope that name was a joke.
Permalink MarkTAW 
March 17th, 2005
Ha, that part about writing folk and rap is funny. Flight of the Conchords once performed wonderful "gangsta folk" at the International Comedy Festival. (An mp3 of that song, a rougher version performed for the BBC, is available on their site.)

I liked the rap battles; Jin seemed really good on BET. Videos are floating around the net.
Permalink Tayssir John Gabbour 
March 17th, 2005
The bottom line is that there is bad music in every genre.

You can make a difference:

Stop listening to bad music.

http://www.youhavebadtasteinmusic.com
Permalink bionicroach 
March 17th, 2005
I think if anyone like some music it is good music.
Permalink Rick Tang 
March 17th, 2005
"Disclaimer: I don't have kids, myself. I'd probably take it a little more seriously if I did."

If you had kids, you would probably be struggling to get some Wiggles song out of your head right now.

"Can you point, your fingers and do the..."
Permalink Jim Rankin 
March 17th, 2005
If you had kids, you would probably be struggling to get Rage against the Machine out of your house right now.
Permalink trollop 
March 17th, 2005
No, you hate rap because you are constantly being reminded by it that you are a nelly white man whose ancestors stole everything they currently own and continue to steal. The rappers are making big fun of you and yours by mocking you nd using your system to get wealthy.

Let it be known that I hate rap "music".
Permalink httpBasicScrew 
March 17th, 2005

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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