A bunch of cunts, mostly in the Australian sense. Except that one guy.

★Libertarianism: A political philosophy for the under 16 c

Dems: willing to pay their fair share for the upkeep of the "commons". (Google the economic term, "Tragedy of the Commons" if you need to.)

Pubs: understand fully that it costs money to maintain the commons in proper working order, but believe adamanatly that they personally shouldn't have to contribute.

Libertardians: are only willing to pay for the part of the commons within a 5 ft radius of themselves and believe that the "Commons Fairy" will magically take care of the rest.

IOW, Pubs love America but just don't want to pay for it themselves. Libertarians are the political equivalent of Trekkies who believe that all social and economic problems will be solved magically if only society adopts their philosophy.

Clarence Darrow once said that taxes are the dues we pay to belong to a civilized society (paraphrase). He was correct and still is.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, homies.
Permalink Great Expectorations 
March 21st, 2005
You do realize that you're forcing Joel and crew to limit posts to ASCII only, right?
Permalink ␄ ␄ ␄ ␆ 
March 21st, 2005
say what?
Permalink ★★★★★ 
March 21st, 2005
---" Dems: willing to pay their fair share for the upkeep of the "commons"."----

I always thought that Dems were willing for others to pay their fair share of the upkeep of the commons.
Permalink Stephen Jones 
March 21st, 2005
You know what I'm saying.
Permalink C♯ ♥r 
March 21st, 2005
" taxes are the dues we pay to belong to a civilized society "

I don't consider the society we live in to be very civilized.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
"I don't consider the society we live in to be very civilized."

Ok, then pay your taxes or rot in jail!

Permalink Duff 
March 21st, 2005
I think republicans are willing to pay their fair share of the commons, they just think that dems are constantly and unreasonably expanding the definition so that anything and everything is included under the commons.

Also, as any town hall meeting on saving social security reveals, the average person's idea of fair share is a small amount from himself and a much larger percentage from anyone rich (i.e someone who makes more money than than he the first person ever expects to earn).
Permalink Name withheld out of cowardice 
March 21st, 2005
Aaron: if you weren't just being snarky, then what would you describe as a "civilized" society?
Permalink Tail of the "g" 
March 21st, 2005
Please note that I didn't say that we're completely uncivilized. I think that the US is perhaps one of the least uncivilized on the planet. I just think that there is a hell of a lot of progress to be made.

A civilized society wouldn't have a governing body that sells out to the highest bidder, as ours seems to. It wouldn't have a city like the one I live in where the biggest debate people can come up with is whether or not to have casinos to pay for a football stadium - in the meantime the city is going broke and is cutting back on education. A civilized society would allow gay marriage, and the people who opposed it would realize that it's none of their damn business. A civilized society would value education over sports, and recognize that both have value (a generalization of my city). A civilized society would allow people to practice whatever religion they wanted (so long as practicing it does not mean harming others), and would not force anyone to practice any religion they didn't want to - and would allow people to leave a religion without penalty. (Religion and faith should be a choice - if you act out of fear, you don't really believe, do you?)

A civilized society would not keep people in check with fear.

Those are a few of my ideas on what a civilised society should be and how we fall short. We're closer than most, but still not there.

You are, of course, free to disagree. Just don't expect to persuade me that I'm wrong.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
Oh, I forgot to mention - I wasn't just being snarky.

I frequently am snarky, and there was a little bit of snark in there, but mostly I am serious.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
"Ok, then pay your taxes or rot in jail!"

Funny you mention that. My dad was presented with that choice and took a third option and left the country.

Me, I pay them. I have better things to do than fleeing the country, like raise a family.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
Name withheld is on the right track.

Don't forget that when people are paying for the commons, they expect it to be taken care of, including dealing with people who *don't* take care of the commons.

(I'm going to switch to liberal and conservative, since it's more accurate)

Liberals think the government should do it, and put people in jail if they don't. The government can also take money from people at gunpoint to fund taking care of the commons.

Conservatives think if you just ignore it, and people want it badly enough, someone will offer to take care of the commons if they can put a fence around it and charge admission. (Or put up blinky ads)

Libertarians think the commons can be left alone.

Obviously, they're all wrong. So the question becomes - which is the least bad option?

Permalink Philo 
March 21st, 2005
"A civilized society would allow gay marriage"

It's not like we are going to jail people living together.
Permalink Rick Tang 
March 21st, 2005
"I don't consider the society we live in to be very civilized."

In comparison to what? By 'society' are you meaning contemporary United States? Or are you meaning Western society in general, North America, Western Europe, and a few other countries? Or do you mean all those EXCEPT for the United States?

Here and now there are probably a dozen countries or so that are more 'civilized' than the US, by fairly objective demographic data such as lifespan or infant mortality rates. Mainly the aforementioned Western European and scattering of other countries. What drags the US down is the death penalty, random gun violence, and lack of affordable healthcare. (just off the top of my head.)

Now, lets compare the US to all previous societies (societies used in the general sense.) Aside from very specific times and places in the various Roman, Japanese, Mongol, Myan, Aztec, and a few other empires, the US looks excellent overall. Long lifespan, all the food you can eat, best medical care ever if you can afford it, excellent education if you can afford it, an established justice system, property rights, freedom of speech and association, a generally live and let live attitude, and entertainment options our ancestors never dreamed of.
Permalink Calgarian 
March 21st, 2005
Calgarian, you obviously failed to read my later comment on what I consider to be civilized.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
I do apologize - by "society" I primarily meant the US, but I believe that the society of the world as a whole is not very civilized either - less so, on average, than the US.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
Funny, but I agree with OP today. Its monday.
Permalink hoser 
March 21st, 2005

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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