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Sexual predators

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/19/missing.girl/index.html

If anyone out there reading has ever dreamed or imagined doing anything to a child, kill yourself now. I am completely serious - go and hang yourself, or smash your car into a median, or jump in a river with a block tied to your ankle.

I am normally against the death penalty, but for pieces of shit like this guy, and any other like him, I am fully and absolutely for unrestrained torture. Call me old fashioned, but I would feel no sadness or restraint seeing this asshole with his intestines being ripped out.

Real sexual offenders should be jailed forever, or they literally should have their balls chopped off. Feel sorry for that poor child rapist who got out and now the neighbourhood is putting up posters and petitioning for him to leave? DON'T. He should be grateful that our liberal, crime-friendly society didn't beat him to death for his offense, so any personal feeling of persecution is not even worth consideration.

Yes, I am completely serious.
Permalink ,..., 
March 19th, 2005
I'm not going to disagree.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 19th, 2005
They have that filthy piece of sh*t on a suicide watch! That means our tax dollars are going to pay the salaries of cops trying to keep that thing from killing itself and solving one of our society's problems. I have issues with the death penalty, but if that thing wants to self-administer capital punishment, who are we to stop it from purifying our planet. We're freakin' paying to have police stop this thing from killing itself for what? So when some trial lawyer gets it off, it can rape and kill another child?
Permalink Godless Visigoth 
March 19th, 2005
I agree completely. This week, there was a big to do about a 'barbaric' Iranian execution of a guy who lured at least 27 small children out to the desert, raped, killed and buried them. They think it was a lot more, those were just the ones they could prove.

They beat him severely first. Then the families of the victims came up and slashed him with knives. Then he was gently lifted by the neck in such a way that he struggled and thrashed for a long while before he died and teh crowd hurled objects and shouted insults.

I am generally against the death penalty and believe that punishments should be humane. But I make an exception for those who torture, rape and kill children. For them the challenge is to device the punishement that will keep them suffering the most intense terror and pain possible for the longest time imaginable.
Permalink Rich Rogers 
March 20th, 2005
I've never understood why it wouldn't be possible to have the death penalty be pretty much automatic in extreme cases - this guy, Paul Bernardo, etc. If there's evidence and a confession, why not just cut to the chase and kill the guy. Keep it to the extreme cases so that no-one's worried about police mistakes or frame-ups, and save a lot of money and don't worry about recidivism.
Permalink Ward 
March 20th, 2005
Anyone can consider individuals where we would be better off with them dead, and where we think its an absolute certainty that they did it.

However, there is no certainty and there is no benefit in their death.

We are not individuals and individually we cannot decide whether someone should die. Expostulations of horror are one thing but they do nothing for the human condition and they do nothing to prevent such atrocities happening again.

As soon as you say; this is unimaginable, I can't imagine doing this or doing that, this is inhuman, as soon as you declare some behaviour non-human you enable the camp guard, the rapist, the murderer and abuser inside you that little bit of unregarded space to live.

This was a human being that did this.

I am a human being, I am capable of this.

I am capable of doing this horrible thing and deciding not to do it and, in deciding, understanding that it is wrong to do it.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 20th, 2005
Hear, hear. I read the first 4 comments with horror. How people can think that this is anything other than primitive revenge is beyond me.

The trend in recent years of allowing victims to influence law making and "punishment" is also profoundly worrying to me.
Permalink Andrew Cherry 
March 20th, 2005
`The trend in recent years of allowing victims to influence law making and "punishment" is also profoundly worrying to me.'

I greatly prefer it to a criminal justice system where dreamers and bleeding hearts, always campaigning for the rights of the criminals, dilute our justice system to the point that child rapists and murderers get revolving door treatment. These people tell us that we're supposed to act like these people, people who robbed someone else, in some cases a young child at the beginning of a promising life, of their life, deserve our compassion and forgiveness. It is remarkable how frequent that "known sex offenders" recommit heinous or escalated acts, but that doesn't stop the bleeding hearts on their misguided quest.

Fuck that.

This piece of shit snuck into a little girl's house, in an obviously carefully considered and executed maneuver, and the end result was that her life was cut brutally short (among whatever horrors this piece of crap committed). This is a scope of evil worlds beyond most any other crime I can imagine, and I will repeat that this monster isn't among my kin, and I will repeat that he should be extinguished in short order.
Permalink ,..., 
March 20th, 2005
Then you can conceive of some horrible and horrendous torture to happen to this person, because for you he is no longer a person, he is an object. Less than an object, a piece of filth.

Other than you not being able to carry out these horrendous acts because, I imagine, you can't get to him, how are you different from him?
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 20th, 2005
I'm not campaigning for the "rights of criminals" though I do believe that they have basic human rights, as if they don't, we merely commit one crime because of another. The aim of a criminal justice system should in my view be to protect society from those members who are a danger to the rest of society, and to help those people where possible. A large majority of crimes are linked to mental illness, drug abuse, etc, and the concept of "revenge" is thoroughly distasteful to me in any circumstance.

Though the crime that this man admits to having committed is brutal and horrifying, calling for torture merely demonstrates the kind of lynch mob mentality that an organised system of justice was meant to stop.

An eye for an eye was beginning to be thought of as outdated and inhumane a long time ago. A large majority of the people (America particularly) calling for ever more extreme punishments, death etc. claim to be Christian (I am an atheist, but watch the actions of organised religion with interest). Even the biblical new testament speaks against the kind of revenge you advocate.

It is very easy it seems for you consider circumstances where you would torture and kill another human being as you can "justify" it. Evidently it seems that murderer either felt the same way, or was mentally abnormal in some way. Personally, I can conceive of no circumstances where I would torture or kill another human being for reasons of crime. That fact that you can should worry you.
Permalink Andrew Cherry 
March 20th, 2005
"Personally, I can conceive of no circumstances where I would torture or kill another human being for reasons of crime. That fact that you can should worry you."

It doesn't worry me whatsoever, nor do I have any problem discering the difference between "rape and kill a little girl" and "kill someone who raped and killed a little girl" (which, I should mention, many advocate because they see how diluted our justice system is - this piece of shit will get off on a technicality, or he'll go to jail for 6 years and will return "rehabilitated" to commit again. Calling for death is a defensive reaction).

The fact that the acts have superficial similarities says nothing to the underlying evil of them. If I extrapolate the logic being presented here, jail is an unfair and unjust exercise because it would be unfair and unjust for us to pluck someone off the street and confine them for several years.
Permalink ,..., 
March 20th, 2005
Fundamentally its a pointless thing to do (incarcerating people), unless its to protect the wider society.

You might see a difference in two acts of torture simply by virtue of the intent behind the acts. For you, it might, conceivably, be right to torture someone to discover the whereabouts of a ticking atomic device.

For me it would not be right, not because torture is wrong, though it is, but because it is inefficient.

Torture of an individual because of their acts is a different kind of thing. The intent is not to discover information or to protect the wider society it is to inflict hurt and harm on someone you think deserves it. The perpetrator also thought the same thing, the intents are the same.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 20th, 2005
You guys who think that putting a sexual predator to death and raping, torturing and killing a defenseless little girl, are really sick in the head. The fact that you can not distinguish morally between these two things is clear evidence to all sensible people that you are deranged.
Permalink Rich Rogers 
March 20th, 2005
You guys who think that putting a sexual predator to death and raping, torturing and killing a defenseless little girl, are comparable, are really sick in the head. The fact that you can not distinguish morally between these two things is clear evidence to all sensible people that you are deranged.
Permalink Rich Rogers 
March 20th, 2005
Harsh punishments does nothing to prevent more crimes. It appears to make it crime rates climb.
Consider this..

Is revenge so important to you that you don't care that in the long run it only creates more, and bloodier crimes?
Permalink Eric Debois 
March 20th, 2005
Saying it twice doesn't make it so.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 20th, 2005
Which punishment is more painful?
Death Penalty or Keeping a person behind bars for life.

Why kill that person anyway? Do we really have that right, to take another's life?

Is killing of a sinner NOT killing?
Permalink Another poster... 
March 20th, 2005
--"Is killing of a sinner NOT killing?"--
Or better is taking life of a *bigger sinner* is JUSTICE.

Keep him away from society, life behind bars is perfectly fine. But I don't think we have right to take his life.
Permalink Another poster... 
March 20th, 2005
>> "However, there is no certainty and there is no benefit in their death."

I'm not for the death penalty, but this nonsense is why the Republicans are winning. No benefit in this guy's death when he committed his first sex crime?!? Ask Jessica Lunsford's parents if it may have been just a little beneficial if this guy weren't alive to kill their precious daughter.

>> "This was a human being that did this.
I am a human being, I am capable of this."

Ummm... Maybe you're capable of this, but I'm certainly not. This mindless drivel is so typical of the spew from the putrid Marxist left. No, Simon. We are not all capable of this degree of evil. And, similarly, we're not all capable of being Einstein's. We're not all equal comrade, and we don't all deserve compassion. This piece of filth was a cancer. We let him out once, and he killed an innocent. Before he kills again, the wise thing to do would be to eliminate him - but I'm not even calling for that. I simply suggest that we allow him to commit suicide and solve a lot of problems for us.

>> "Is revenge so important to you that you don't care that in the long run it only creates more, and bloodier crimes?"

What an arse. Is it *revenge* to use chemo to destroy cancer cells? It's pragmatism.
Permalink Godless Visigoth 
March 20th, 2005
It isn't compassion. I don't care about the perpetrator at all, but what I do care about is the mind set that says 'I'm not capable of doing this' since all human history shows that we are all capable of it and not recognising that is one of the reasons it still goes on.

When do you decide to prune a life because it might take another?
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 20th, 2005
'I'm not capable of doing this'

Yep, I'm sure that's what the Germans thought back in the day in 1933.
Permalink Wisea** 
March 20th, 2005
People who sexually abuse children have an extremely high rate of recidivism. There is very little probability that they will truly reform.

As far as life in prison goes, there is little difference between planned torture and time in prison for a child molester. Among the people there, child molestors get pretty much the worst possible treatment by both prisoners and staff. Many wind up dead.

A simple bullet to the head would be much more humane.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 20th, 2005
I think you people need to read the title of the article. The keyword is "suspect".

Then again I sometimes forget that this is Bush's Brave New America we're talking about, and guilty until proven guilty is the norm.
Permalink  
March 21st, 2005
`I think you people need to read the title of the article. The keyword is "suspect".'

Save the uncertainty for cases where there is uncertainty, otherwise you just look like a dumbass.

Of course those who speak for criminals would have us believe that criminals are "Innocent until...no, always innocent". Tried and convicted? Well it was a unfair trial! Innocent!
Permalink ,..., 
March 21st, 2005
Ok, here:

After a fair and thorough trial during which all legitimate evidence is considered, if a child molester is found guilty, then it's much more humane to just put a bullet in their head than to send them to prison.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
I believe that people who of convicted of these crimes should die. Quick and easy. Not for retribution but for the simple economics of it. We don't have enough money to keep people from poverty, so we shouldn't afford ourselves the guilty luxury of keeping these people in jail for years. Why do that and then make law abiding old people pay for their care in later life? It makes no sense. Why lock these people up when children starve on the street? So yes, I agree that they should be disposed of because they have forfeited their right to life, but torture? No. Maybe we should dispose of you too if you think that. In my experience, people who protest in such strident terms have something to hide. What do you think folks? Does he have something to hide. I think he has protested too much? Let's suspend the assumption of innocence and give him the treatment he is subconsciously begging for because of his self evident guilt.
Permalink ,....,'s guilty conscience 
March 21st, 2005
You're advocating killing someone because it's cheap? Wow... that's so... American.
Permalink Andrew Cherry 
March 21st, 2005
,...,'s guilty conscience,

Oh, golly gee, you got me Cletus. That recess yard psychology you have there really has served you well, and it helped you read me like a book. I appreciate now that normal people aren't moved and horrified by young children being raped and murdered, not good upstanding folk like you. It's just the people who have something to hide.
Permalink ,..., 
March 21st, 2005
> How people can think that this is anything other than primitive revenge is beyond me.

Why is revenge primitive? Seriously. I can only see it as justice served.
Permalink jz 
March 21st, 2005
>> "since all human history shows that we are all capable of it and not recognizing that is one of the reasons it still goes on."

(1) I know myself. I cringe at the thought of evil children plucking the wings off flies. I get teary eyed when I see commercials for animal shelters. And I have to turn off the television when I see those ads for starving children in third-world countries. I am absolutely incapable of committing a crime against a minor - and I believe that most humans a built with this same sort of empathy hard-wired into their personalities. If you can even conceive of committing this kind of unthinkable offense, then you really frighten me.

(2) Since "all of history shows we are all capable of it", then I'm sure you wouldn't mind sharing with us your empirical data to support this nonsensical claim, and your analysis methodology. It's not even a testable thesis. It's just more drivel from the Marxist left who insist that nobody is "better" than anyone else.
Permalink Godless Visigoth 
March 21st, 2005
We need to figure out why we have punishment and justice system.

Reform prisoners? Prevent crimes? Uphold Justice?

Many psychology experiments suggest most people could do horrible cimre under the right circumstances.

But I do wonder how many could kill children under any circumstance. Rage? Religious rituals? War?
Permalink Rick Tang 
March 21st, 2005
> But I do wonder how many could kill children under any circumstance. Rage? Religious rituals? War?

And starvation.

I think that it is/was normal in some human cultures; and in some animal species, that I know of. If anyone claims "I couldn't possibly" I imagine that's for cultural (not biological) reasons.

OTOH I have read texts which claim that animals are biologically/instinctively inhibited against killing their own young, and killing weaker members of their own species.
Permalink Christopher Wells 
March 21st, 2005
But I believe lions kill offsprings that couldn't survive.
Permalink Rick Tang 
March 21st, 2005
> But I believe lions kill offsprings that couldn't survive.

FWIW I believe that lions kill cubs that were fathered by previous males: which makes the lionesses come into estrus again sooner.
Permalink Christopher Wells 
March 21st, 2005
A lot of rodents eat their own young when in a stressful situation - and not just in a starvation situation, either. Freak 'em out and chomp chomp chomp.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
March 21st, 2005
"I know myself.  I cringe at the thought of evil children plucking the wings off flies.  I get teary eyed when I see commercials for animal shelters.  And I have to turn off the television when I see those ads for starving children in third-world countries.  I am absolutely incapable of committing a crime against a minor"

ok, maybe you are the exception. a man rendered so entirely immasculated by todays society that you have all the inner strength of mashed pumpkin, and all the violent capacity of a roast lamb.
congratulations :)

my experience is that its all too easy to practice violence against nearly everyone, the only thing that stands between me and my family is the fact that I would rather pulp my bones to mash between two pieces of iron than hurt any of them.
....and even with that, sometimes I need to walk away.

To me, thats the point, its *so easy* for us to lose our humanity and treat others like animals/objects/extensions of our own will that we need to guard agaisnt that tendency at *every* point.

Sure, theres very few people here who dont understand the desire to utterly destroy people capable of committing certain acts, but for the sake of our own humanity we need to ensure that they are treated correctly.

Its not for their sake, they dont matter, its not about rehabilitation..a sexual desire for children is a sexuality and (as records show) is unlikely to change...its for the sake of our own souls.

Would shooting them be more humane? sure, but who wants to treat them humanely? lets just put the bastards through due process, so we can be sure they are guilty, and then lets lock the fuckers up until they die.
Permalink FullNameRequired 
March 21st, 2005
Perhaps most people are susceptible to stress; though not to such an extent as actually *eating* their young. SFAIK even my own (and at that time, inexperienced) mother bit *me*, once: and apologised to me for it decades later.
Permalink Christopher Wells 
March 21st, 2005
"I am absolutely incapable of committing a crime against a minor"

Are you an American? Or British, Italian, Australian? if so your taxes you pay for children to die in Iraq and Afghanistan. You are responsible for that in some small way. How hard did you campaign for intervention in Rwanda?You can't disclaim that responsibility even if you don't agree with the war. Do you have income that you use on luxuries rather than relieving child poverty? If so, then you are responsible for propagating child poverty and by extension the abuse that comes with it.

We are all responsible, all of us.
Permalink WoodenTongue 
March 22nd, 2005

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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