Reconciling assholes for nearly a decade.

Guns don't kill people, crazed students with guns kill people.

While I agree normal citizens should have the right to purchase and 'bear arms', I also think that gun violence in this country justifies some regulation.

And we have regulation, yet still crazed people get guns and kill people. I had a discussion with someone who suggested it is hand-guns that are really the problem -- using a rifle or shot-gun for self defense and hunting makes much more sense, is less concealable, and is harder to transport for killing people.

Is it not possible to put in place controls that limit the number of people a crazed student can kill, at least?
Permalink AllanL5 
March 22nd, 2005
Ummm, then in that case why do you want people to have the right to carry guns, its not like they're going to state 'I'm a crazed student and I'm going to shoot up a classroom' when they buy it or sign some licence, nor, in this case were the guns his, he stole them from a perfectly law abiding, and now I imagine dead, honest citizen.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 22nd, 2005
There is no such thing as a control that will prevent any human from ever killing another human ever. It's not going to happen. Guns aren't the problem. Sharp pointy sticks aren't the problem, either. Humans are the problem. If you want to get rid of violence, you have to kill all the humans.
Permalink muppet 
March 22nd, 2005
Oh, I think his primary weapon was indeed a shotgun, along with two hand guns.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 22nd, 2005
muppet, that's almost precisely why the US will never be civilised.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 22nd, 2005
Incidentally, don't forget this was on an Indian Reservation. Any gun legislation the US passes would likely not be enforceable there ANYWAY.

Philo
Permalink Philo 
March 22nd, 2005
There you go confusing good old arguments with facts again.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
March 22nd, 2005
Getting rid of all the humans won't stop violence. All the other animals will still perpetrate violence on eachother. We have to kill all the animals...and maybe many of the protozoans. Plants are okay except the few like the venus flytrap and the pitcher plant that kill insects. Of course with all the insects gone that won't be an issue.
Permalink Name withheld out of cowardice 
March 22nd, 2005
Guns happen to be a particularly effective tool for killing people. You don't need unusual strength or skill to use them for this purpose. A person with a gun can kill people a considerable distance away.

There are lots of other tools for killing people; it's just that they are much less effective, and usually only work up close.

In todays world, guns exist primarily to kill people. Sure, there are people that need guns for protection from wildlife, but not many. I think it makes sense to restrict the number of firearms in the general population. Not completely ban, restrict. That way there will be fewer to steal and misuse.

It's tragic when children kill or maim themselves playing with guns that their parents were too stupid to lock away. My solution for that is that insurance companies need not pay out for any damages caused by inadequately secured firearm.

People that go on about their "right" to bear arms seem to forget about the "well regulated militia" part that comes next.
Permalink Calgarian 
March 22nd, 2005
+++It's tragic when children kill or maim themselves playing with guns that their parents were too stupid to lock away. My solution for that is that insurance companies need not pay out for any damages caused by inadequately secured firearm.+++

Are you fucking shitting me? Your assertion is that parents who can't be fucked to lock their guns away for their own children's sake are going to be motivated to do so because of a clause in their homeowner's insurance?

Fucking seriously?!
Permalink muppet 
March 22nd, 2005
The problem with guns is the ease. You can stab someone to death, you can kick someone to death. But killing 9 people before someone stops you (or you stop yourself) - I can't think of many other kinds of weapons that make that possible.

If people want to shoot for recreation, which I have no issue with, what would be the problem with mandating that all guns are stored at gun clubs? Or ranges? Sure, it won't stop gun related crime, but it would lessen the incidence of spur-of-the-moment and oppurtunist crimes (and may have helped prevent this one).
Permalink Andrew Cherry 
March 22nd, 2005
Allan, take a look at Ted Bundy. He managed to kill lots of people without *any* guns. In fact, he deliberately avoided guns because they were traceable. He even beat one woman to death with a branch from a tree.

Ted Kaczinsi didn't kill folks with guns, he made his own bombs. He didn't even buy screws, he machined his own. Are you going to ban machine tools and typewriters next?

Obsessing about guns is like obsessing about the texture of paint on a saw-horse. It is the wrong thing to do. Obsess about the violence in America: the root cause.
Permalink Peter 
March 22nd, 2005
How many people can actually make their own bombs? How many people have the knowledge and access to equipment machine their own screws or other bomb requirements? How many of those people are going to be motivated to actually use their knowledge and skills to build and set off a bomb? On the scale of risks to me, worrying about being killed by a mad bomber is right up there with worring about being killed by a meteor.

One can kill people without guns. But to kill someone with a tree branch takes much more effort than pulling a trigger and is much riskier. You're hand to hand with your victim. Even a big guy with a stick can get his ass kicked if the victim has some martial arts training.

As for muppet's comment about insurance, at least I'm not paying for other people's stupidity by having insurance payouts going up. And oddly enough, there are people who don't care about their kids, but do care about their dollars.
Permalink Calgarian 
March 22nd, 2005
Just heard a report on the radio that the school had an unarmed guard who also was killed. How much you want to bet the new guard will be armed?
Permalink Honu 
March 22nd, 2005
>>>Even a big guy with a stick can get his ass kicked if the victim has some martial arts training.<<<

Which is unlikely. The victim will more likely just end up dead.

But if we get rid of guns the world will definitely be a safer place - for the big guys. Too bad for the smaller people.
Permalink gerblfz 
March 23rd, 2005

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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