Sanding our assholes with 150 grit.

Al Gore says, "Folks, we've got a problem"...

No surprise: it's Bush. A long-winded speech on MLK day, but a necessary one.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0116-34.htm
Permalink Misanthrope 
January 16th, 2006
Democracy is dying.

No one gives a shit.

What I really want to know is what Janet Jackson and Brad Pitt are up to today.
Permalink  
January 16th, 2006
"As we begin this new year, the Executive Branch of our government has been caught eavesdropping on huge numbers of American citizens and has brazenly declared that it has the unilateral right to continue without regard to the established law enacted by Congress to prevent such abuses."

I note that he didn't mention that the program is 10+ years old. And 20+ years old if you count ECHELON.
Permalink KC 
January 16th, 2006
>I note that he didn't mention that the program is 10+ years old. And 20+ years old if you count ECHELON.
FISA was passed because a previous tricky dicky president decided that he was above the law, especially during "wartime." The current NSA program can't possibly be 10+ years old, since bush has been signing "emergency waivers from FISA" for this program. You want to claim that it was happening under Clinton? Produce an exective order or finding signed by the Clenis™. Time to put up or shut up.

The extent of the wiretapping was so bad that the administration could not possibly get Congress to make it legal.

"We've had discussions with members of Congress, certain members of Congress, about whether or not we could get an amendment to FISA, and we were advised that that was not likely to be — that was not something we could likely get..."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/12/20051219-1.html
Permalink Peter 
January 16th, 2006
well, no. the point is that the 'program' is 10+ years old. the abuse of this program to spy on americans without warrants by the president has only been happening since bush decided that he wanted to.
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 16th, 2006
You are either with the President or against him.
Permalink RNC 
January 16th, 2006
KC is correct. Echelon is a american program that spys on all electronic communications of americans - telephone, email, radio and fax. There are no warrants for echelon. Echelon did in fact exist under Clinton as well.
Permalink Art Wilkins 
January 16th, 2006
"the abuse of this program to spy on americans without warrants by the president has only been happening since bush decided that he wanted to. "

bullshit.
Permalink  
January 16th, 2006
<shrug> so maybe hes the first person to get caught. who gives a shit? the question is, now that he *has* been caught, what do we expect to be done about it?
Permalink Jesus H Christ 
January 16th, 2006
I know whats going to happen. Neocons are going to go "old news / clinton did it too!!! / why do you hate america?"

Everyone else is going to go "Holy shit, Bush really is the fuck wit evil trained monkey we already knew he was".

And then nothings going to happen.
Permalink Eric Debois 
January 16th, 2006
The current crop of hacks are more incompetent than usual, but echelon and similar programs are hardly new.

Previously, the US, UK and Australia/NZ joined up and collaborated to spy on each other. Technically, the US wouldn't spy on US citizens -- the Brits would. (and vice versa) That system has been around in one form or another for almost two decades.

For Gore to come out and get huffy about this is incredibly disingenuous. Gore served as Vice President in an administration that routinely used the FBI to spy on political enemies (Remember the 'lost' files that were 'found' in a White House attic?) and as a technically astute guy, had to be aware of the echelon program.

And before you people get all snotty -- I'm not defending Bush. I'm attacking a hypocrite.
Permalink Duff 
January 16th, 2006
Holy Shit! Al Gore has something to say? Good gosh a mighty! He should run for president. If enough people buy his bullshit then he can get to be president and then what he says will matter.
Permalink PangoX 
January 16th, 2006
Art Wilkins is wrong. Echelon was not previously used to spy on americans.
Permalink Kasey 
January 17th, 2006
"Echelon was not previously used to spy on americans."

Correction: "The NSA did not use Echelon to spy on americans."

The Brits & Australians did however -- and any information provided to the US by them will be secret forever. There are still pages of John Lennon's FBI file that remain secret, because a foreign intelligence source provided the data.
Permalink Duff 
January 17th, 2006

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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