Sanding our assholes with 150 grit.

crohn's disease

I was reading up on fish oils & it seems they heve an anti inflammatory effect & there is strong evidence that it helps with crohns disease. according to the article, "entric-coated, free-fatty-acid form fish oil" is the kind you should take. vitamin d is also strongly recommended for crohns. i'm not sure why.
Permalink marktaw (on my girlfriend's treo) 
August 8th, 2005
oh yeah, the links on the bottom of the topic list appear as "New New topic" & "New Old topics."
Permalink marktaw (on my girlfriend's treo) 
August 8th, 2005
you're a damn nice guy mark and I mean that, no joke.
Permalink FaLing@Orbiz.ch 
August 8th, 2005
I have also heard some good things, possibly Flax too?
Permalink Berlin Brown 
August 8th, 2005
flax has a different omega 3 to omega 6 ratio than fish. vegetable oils in general have more omega 6 than omega 3.
Permalink marktaw (on my girlfriend's treo) 
August 8th, 2005
"Most fish oil supplements are 18% EPA and 12% DHA, or a total of 30% omega-3 fatty acid, unlike the omega-3 fatty acid found in flaxseed oil and other vegetable oils (such as alpha linolenic acid), keep blood triglicerides in check (high triglycerides are generally linked with increased risk of heart disease) and mey inhibit the progression of atherosclerosis. EPA and DHA keep blood from clotting too quickly.

EPA and DHA also have anti-inflammatory activity. As a result, fish oil is used to help with various inflammatory conditions, such as Crohn's disease and rheumatoid arthritis..."

maybe I got the omega 6 thing wrong, but it looks like it's fish oils or nothing.
Permalink marktaw (on my girlfriend's treo) 
August 8th, 2005
"To a very limited extent, omega-3 fatty acids from vegetable sources, such as flaxseed oil, can convert to EPA."

"The health benefits for people with Crohn's disease has been reported with a special, encoated preparation of purified EPA/DHA manufactured from fish oil. This preparation of purified fatty acids has also been reported to not cause the gastrointestinal symptoms that often result from taking regular fish oil supplements, again suggesting unique benefit."
Permalink marktaw (on my girlfriend's treo) 
August 8th, 2005
"enteric-coated" not encoated.
Permalink marktaw (on my girlfriend's treo) 
August 8th, 2005
Oh, cool, the computer database I was getting this from is available online.

http://www.gnc.com/health_notes/healthnotes.aspx?ContentId=2843005&lang=en
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
Yep, knew about the fish oil thing, thanks. Never seemed to do anything for me, but maybe I didn't take it long enough.

Now that I'm allergic to all the drugs I guess anything's worth a try.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition has a fairly comprehensive list of studies. Browsing them, it seems that it usually helps, but doesn't prevent you from needing other treatment.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/339S
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
Oh yeah, and from what I've been reading, the typical "load time" is 3 months, where you should take it 3 times a day. After that you can take it once a day for maintenance, because presumably the body has been able to rebuild whatever was lacking earlier by 3 months time.

But this is for the brain & cardio effects, I'm not sure if the same advice carries over to Crohn's.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
The absolute kind of oils that you should try and avoid are mineral oils and if people wonder what on earth mineral oils are doing in food then they should think about processing machinery and that up to 5 parts per million are allowed under FDA regulations.

Mineral oils are not processed by the body at all but they can seep in variously vile ways through the digestive system.Other than that many laxative products contain mineral oils precisely because they aren't processed by the body.

The only way to avoid mineral oils in the diet is to avoid any food that is processed by a machine.

Crohn's disease is typically caused by an inability to process fats efficiently which then sets up a chain of events which over time degrades the digestive system and can involve considerable pain and operations. As Muppet undoubtedly knows.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
August 9th, 2005
+++Crohn's disease is typically caused by an inability to process fats efficiently which then sets up a chain of events which over time degrades the digestive system and can involve considerable pain and operations. As Muppet undoubtedly knows.+++

The last I researched, which was admittedly some time ago, there were quite a number of competing theories regarding the causes of Crohn's disease. It may be that Crohn's disease is actually several diseases. I've always been taught that it's the result of an overzealous immune system attacking either symbiotic bacteria in the bowel or the bowel itself.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
Granted, its more a description of symptoms than a nailed down disease, irritable bowel syndrome gets in on the act along with colitis and heaven knows what.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
August 9th, 2005
My diagnosis swings between Ulcerative Colitis and Crohn's depending upon what doctor I'm seeing and the phase of the moon.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
A cursory look at what it's known to be (an inflammation) puts in the same league as psoriasis or eczema, which nobody knows the cause of either.
FWIW:

http://www.gnc.com/health_notes/healthnotes.aspx?ContentID=1198000&lang=en

"A high-fiber, low-sugar diet led to a 79% reduction in hospitalizations compared with no dietary change in one group of people with Crohn’s disease." etc. etc.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
A high fiber diet would kill me.

I've typically followed a very strict low-residue, low-fiber, no-dairy diet when I really want/need to go into remission with or without medication. I followed it for my entire childhood, which was kind of a bummer but I also remained in remission 99% of the time.

Lately I'm a bit more liberal about what I eat and it has been to my detriment.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
At least muppet you aren't female with the complication of the bowel fissuring into the vagina based on the experiences of a friend with colitis.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
August 9th, 2005
No instead I've gotten anal fissures which cause the formation of large skin tags when they heal, which in turn cause abrasion and debridement and hemmorhoids/cysts.

I've been having a good time these past few months.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
That's completely non-intuitive to me. The more fiber I eat, the more pleasant & fast my bathroom going experience. In fact, I never understood people who spent a long time in the bathroom until I got lazy and lived off of pizza and various pastas for a few days and suddenly had a problem going to the bathroom.

I'm also very sensitive to sugar, and if I have too much I can actually get a minor rash for a few minutes. A high-fiber, low sugar diet makes a lot of sense to me.

But I can understand how filling up something that can become inflamed wouldn't be good.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
Mark -

Imagine that you have a raw, bleeding, weeping open lesion on your arm.

Now imagine scrubbing that lesion with feces. Now with well packed, compact feces containing lots of fiber.

Now imagine that the lesions are internal and that you can't directly treat them or even cover them.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
"Now with well packed, compact feces containing lots of fiber."

See, this is where we part ways. Well packed, compact feces describes what happens if I don't have enough fiber. If I'm constipated (it's happened to me only a handful of times in my life, and was always caused by diet), that stuff seems compact, tough, and hard to pass. When I eat lots of fiber (I love broccoli, eat it regularly), the poop is bigger, but generally softer, and passes with ease. I require no reading material in the bathroom, I'm rarely there for more than 30 seconds.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
I can't explain the actual chemistry, biology, or mechanics of it. I just know that for me, eating foods high in fiber is like passing a brillo pad through my intestines. It's an experience I've had and do not care to repeat.

Now, broccoli I eat. Whole grains, wheat breads, and the like, I do not. I also avoid:

fresh vegetables (ie, uncooked)
fresh fruit except bananas
asparagus even if cooked

the list is actualy pretty extensive.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
But broccoli is a vegetable...

So do you do the astronaut diet? The one that lets them poop as little as possible while they're in space?
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
Oh sorry, you eat them cooked. I get it.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
Mark there's plenty of poop, I just avoid just about any food that might possibly present any sort of digestive "challenge".

I can't claim that there's much reasoning behind it except that the list was given my parents by a hospital dietician back in 1983 and, following the regimen religiously for 13 years kept me very healthy. When I went off of it, I got sick. I've stubbornly remained off of it until now because "I'll be damned if I can't eat what the fuck I want." :-)

No pizza, ice cream, cheese, bacon, steak, pork, coffee... does get old, after awhile.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
Those things fuck with my digestive system too. Asparagus causes yellow, smelly pee. Pizza I already talked about. Ice cream I already talked about. Excessive grease upsets my stomach. Meats I'm ok with, but I've never tried large quantities. Not recently anyway.
Permalink MarkTAW 
August 9th, 2005
Yeah but then the list includes:

apples, oranges, grapefruit, pears, peaches, nectarines, plums, grapes, string beans, snow peas...

peanuts, chestnuts, walnuts, pistachios, pecans...

100% fruit juices, alcohol...
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
Of course my only point here is that it sucks.

Boo Hoo.

:-)
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
"Mark there's plenty of poop."

Sidebar, please.

(Don't mean to make light, muppet -- between having a friend with Crohn's and my own as-yet-unexplained digestive disorders, I have a fair idea what you're dealing with -- but C'MON!)
Permalink bionicroach 
August 9th, 2005
One of the worst symptoms of my continuing existence isn't the loss of hair, the bad knees but the skin tags on the outside of my body so I can only slightly imagine the irritation of having them on the inside.

And please I'd rather not know of all the possible vile things that could cause death that manifest as skin tags in the first place, I'm already attuned to the idea of not seeing out much beyond the next decade, knowing about it would not help.
Permalink Simon Lucy 
August 9th, 2005
I decided after this thread that I've never really gone whole hog, full-bore high fibre, preferring instead to try it out little by little, which always backfired and caused me horrible pain.

In a sort of self-destructive experiment, I decided to get a fresh salad in the cafeteria today made from iceberg lettuce, chopped tomatoes, raw white onions, kidney beans, wheat germ, and a tiny splash of italian dressing.

It will be interesting to see how I'm feeling this evening.
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
My guess is screaming in agony.
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
August 9th, 2005
Well we'll see, at any rate. :-)

If I am, then I know the fiber route is not for me. :-)
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
Or maybe you just need to give it the full gung ho for even longer while it scrubs your insides completely clean.

I'm just glad I'm not you.

In several ways, now that I think about it. :)
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
August 9th, 2005
Fuck you too, Aaron. :-)
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
muppet,

You may already know this, but one thing you may want to look into is the difference between soluable and insoluable fiber. I think most foods that people consider to be high in fiber are actually just high in insoluable fiber (whole wheat, raw vegetables, etc.). It's generally thought that this kind of fiber can exacerbate some conditions (IBS in particular). Most of the stuff I've read recommends avoiding this sort of fiber, and instead eating a lot of the insoluable fiber kind. I'm not sure exactly where you find this fiber other than the supplements (Metamucil, Fibercon, etc.). I think pasta, and non wheat bread might be one place. I can find references if you want.

I know that for me, personally, taking 3-4 tablespoons of insoluable fiber supplements a day, and jogging every other day has really helped my IBS symptoms. Also, I can't eat or drink most of the stuff you mentioned. I'm going to be a very angry old person if I can never eat a pizza again.

Oh yeah, I'm sure things are bit different with Crohn's, but I thought you might want to look into the soluable/insoluable thing.
Permalink John V. 
August 9th, 2005
It's something to look at, John.

Actually IBS, Colitis, and Crohn's are all pretty different when it comes to recommended diets. Depending upon which experts you listen to, anyway. Some recommend the same for all but most recommend high fiber for everything but Colitis, or vice versa, on and on...

Since "they" can't decide whether I have Ulcerative Colitis or Crohn's, and the two often indicate contradictory treatments, I'm never quite sure what to do, so I do what seems to work. :)
Permalink muppet 
August 9th, 2005
That's probably your best bet, then.

I'm just now starting to settle into my own diet/excerise schedule that keeps me away from the worst of the dreaded 'C'. It took quite a while, though. Last summer was painful. :-\
Permalink John V. 
August 9th, 2005
Oh, there might be some ambiguity there.

(C == Constipation) && !(C == Crohn's)
Permalink John V. 
August 9th, 2005
Soluble fibre is found in oatmeal, and apparently is also good at combating heart disease.

I have read that wheat products, especially whole wheat and wheat bran, can be irritating to the bowel and might be avoided by those with sensitive digestions. It would seem that potatoes and rice are better to eat than bread and pasta.
Permalink Ian Boys 
August 9th, 2005
For some reason I have it in my head that fish oil is better absorbed through eating fish containing the oil than it is through ingesting the oil directly. Grain of salt not included.
Permalink I am Jack's infinite id 
August 9th, 2005
Hey muppet -

How's your ass?

I mean...how'd your little experiment with full bore high fiber go?
Permalink Aaron F Stanton 
August 10th, 2005

This topic was orginally posted to the off-topic forum of the
Joel on Software discussion board.

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