Give ne back my hat!

Religous extremists murder 400 children

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200949
Permalink libtard_uk 
September 10th, 2017 11:34am
Fake headline.marked for delete.
> The death records indicate that most of the children died of natural causes, from diseases common at the time such as TB, pneumonia and pleurisy.
Permalink clueless observer 
September 10th, 2017 11:41am
They were unmarked MASS GRAVES with no records even though there was a legal requirement at the time to report all deaths.

And you want to argue there's nothing strange?

If this is all the deaths at this orphanage though they are doing pretty well. When Canada had the Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings a few years ago one thing that came out was that 50-70% of the children taken to those Residential Schools DIED while at school. That's a high mortality rate.
Permalink Reality Check 
September 10th, 2017 12:04pm
I'm not deleting this but I don't see where the children were murdered.

There's lots of valid stuff to hate the Catholic Church about, no need to exaggerate.
Permalink Shylock 
September 10th, 2017 12:06pm
Most of CoT works hard to find interesting stuff and exclusive analysis. The headline is a garbage lie and not worthy of CoT
Permalink Bunker 
September 10th, 2017 12:13pm
Lol
Permalink Legion 
September 10th, 2017 12:16pm
"I don't see where the children were murdered."

The children were not murdered in the same way that Jews in Nazi concentration camps who died because of atrocious conditions that inevitably would lead to death were not murdered.

Either both were murdered, or neither were.
Permalink Reality Check 
September 10th, 2017 12:29pm
There's a gray area in between those two extremes.
Permalink Shylock 
September 10th, 2017 12:31pm
There is a very strong connection here too. Do you know your history?

Regarding the Canadian Residential schools, a doctor had toured them and written a letter to the man in charge of the schools saying that conditions in the schools were terrible, sub-human, and were leading to mass deaths. He advocated common sense reform that would have cost almost nothing, and medical care.

The director of the residential school system, which was for Indian children, responded to him in a famous letter. He said that what the doctor reported, the death of the children from easily preventable disease, was not something the government wanted to change because this outcome was the "Final Solution to the Indian Problem".

Decades later a foreign leader studied this history and DIRECTLY COPIED this terminology for justifying his own identical program.
Permalink Reality Check 
September 10th, 2017 12:33pm
50 to 70% mortality rate, yes, that's murder. Did the article state the mortality rate and I missed it?
Permalink Shylock 
September 10th, 2017 1:01pm
Perhaps libtard_uk could tell us what research was conducted to determine these were murders. Otherwise it's just slander and lies -- really not what CoT should be hosting.
Permalink Bunker 
September 10th, 2017 1:04pm
I would appreciate it if you would stop with this thing you do where you intentionally mistate what was said to make a straw man argument. It is offensive particularly for a serious subject like murder of innocents.

This orphanage appears to have corpses of 400 children in a mass grave, all which were unreported, which is illegal and means there was a coverup. Most of the deaths occurred between 1870 and 1930. Between 1864 and 1981 the orphanage had charge over 11,600 children. So if the 400 deaths are all there were (actually there were probably reported deaths on top of these), then that might be as low as a 3.6% mortality rate.

That rate is not as bad as the Canadian Residential Schools, some which it was revealed during the Truth and Reconciliation Commission investigations recently to have death rates of students in the 50-70% range. These deaths likewise were due to poor conditions. However survivors of these schools also testified that they suffered abuse from the churches that ran the schools (on behalf of the government) such as rape, shackling/chaining, electrical shocks, starvation, and more, including being the subjects of dangerous medical experiments without their consent.

However just because the rate might have been lower for the Scottish orphanage doesn't mean they aren't culpable for deaths caused by their conditions. This includes deaths caused by susceptibility to disease from stressed immune systems due to endemic abuse and factors such as malnutrition. Also given the limited time range it is possible that the rate of death could be similar at the Scottish school, if for example they had 1600 students in the 1870-1930 period and 400 died and were reported and 400 died and were thrown in an unmarked grave, then they would have been running at 50% mortality during that time period. Likewise with the Canadian schools, after the 1930s conditions improved quite a bit and the very high mortality rates were in the same 1870-1930 time frame.
Permalink Reality Check 
September 10th, 2017 1:13pm
>However just because the rate might have been lower for the Scottish orphanage doesn't mean they aren't culpable for deaths caused by their conditions.

I agree with that. But the fact is that after all these years it'd be very hard to prove that. And the percentage of 3.6%, while high, isn't a blinking red light.
Permalink Shylock 
September 10th, 2017 1:39pm
@Shylock

"One of those believed to be buried there is Francis McColl. He died in 1961, aged 13; his death certificate indicates he died from a brain haemorrhage.
His brother Eddie spent decades wondering what had happened to Francis. At one point, he heard he'd been struck on the head by a golf club, which now chimes with the evidence of the death certificate."

Sounds like murder to me. Or at least manslaughter.
Permalink Yoda 
September 10th, 2017 6:22pm
Oh, I wouldn't be surprised. Those orders were full of horrible people.
Permalink Shylock 
September 10th, 2017 6:23pm
> He died in 1961,

Might still be time to find and convict
Permalink Bunker 
September 10th, 2017 9:50pm
It would be wonderful if the poor boy found justice.
Permalink Shylock 
September 10th, 2017 9:53pm
How can we help?
Permalink Bunker 
September 10th, 2017 10:06pm
I'd say conditions were really tough there but they were tough in all schools at the time.
I know my father's pre-war school almost encouraged violence between pupils to "knock the corners" off them and make men of them.
Different times and god help you if you were a bastard.
Permalink Wick 
September 11th, 2017 10:03am
> god help you if you were a bastard

How so?
Permalink X 
September 11th, 2017 12:23pm
Or an orphan.

There was much abuse in orphanages by our modern standards, that was not unique to Catholic institutions.

Life was much rougher than today, also among kids themselves, and especially in poor neighbourhoods.
Permalink Lotti Fuehscheim 
September 11th, 2017 12:38pm

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