What's wrong in stating salary expectations?
When interviewing, salary expectation is ground zero. Yet there seems to be this trend of balking at stating expectations up front.
Which can lead to a lot of wasted time only to find out they're paying 35k for a job in London.
One stupid young recruiter bitch I talked with currently out of boredom was dismayed at my question "I make $X, does your client pay at least >= $X?". Babbled some meme about salary who must not be the primary motivation so the conversation ended soon after.
January 13th, 2018 2:14am
January 13th, 2018 3:11am
Reddit thread purports to show that in the US, STEM careers pay the most.
Thread starts out with ClosetDoorEnthusiast noting he makes far below the mean.
Others play off this, noting their STEM careers have shit pay as well.
Someone finally asks ClosetDoorEnthusiast what his specialty is. He says statistics.
Another person offers him a job as a Data Analyst, provided he has experience with R.
ClosetDoorEnthusiast responds that he is living in the third world in an area with inconsistent data access, so they'd have to be OK with him working remotely and being unable to contact him for long periods of time.
January 13th, 2018 6:47am
Also, he's currently unemployed and has spent the last few years as a stay at home dad. In Ghana. Supported by his wife's job, which "has our family overseas for the next several years".
January 13th, 2018 6:50am
He probably earns at least 2x the average for where he lives.
January 13th, 2018 6:52am
Bob: STEM jobs pay great!
Joe: Not so good for me my friend.
Bob: Joe, we are hiring if you know R.
Joe: I know R. You hire me? I live in Ghana. No internet access. No work experience. Have been unemployed my whole life.
Bob: Now I see why pay is not so great for you Joe and it's nothing to do with your STEM degree.
Joe: I was told this degree would get me a good job!
Bob: You have to actually take the jobs Joe.
Joe: But I am busy doing housework. I don't have time for job. Why STEM pay me so bad?
January 13th, 2018 6:53am
> He probably earns at least 2x the average for where he lives.
$1381/year = average salary in Ghana.
Presumably his wife is a diplomat and the value of their apartment is at least $2762/yr, so ok.
January 13th, 2018 6:54am
Sorry that's average per capita income. However average income is $7423. Both adjusted to USD. Weird they are so different.
January 13th, 2018 6:56am
We'd probably need a statistician to figure it out.
January 13th, 2018 6:56am
The best jokes are always in the comments, lol.
January 13th, 2018 7:04am
Btw Ghana's one of the better, stable, progressive spots in Africa although it's rather too hot for my taste.
January 13th, 2018 7:08am
I've met many people from Ghana and they were very nice and also hard working and diligent.
I think the statistician instead of starting out with "I've got a STEM degree and am underpaid" should have lead with the small detail that he's living in Africa without work authorization and is unemployed, which *probably* has more to do with his salary problems than not having gotten the "right" degree.
January 13th, 2018 7:14am
Also realized his wife probably isn't a diplomat because the embassy has good internet access. Maybe she's in the army? I think you can bring your spouse and kid with you if you're stationed in a non-combat area? I know that's how it worked with the military stationed in Germany. Tons of american kids grew up there.
January 13th, 2018 7:16am
Yeah his wife is military, in logistics and intelligence work. They do trips to Congo etc. Ghana is some sort of central base for US operations in Africa, which is "training" locals.
He started his Masters program around 2005, had the first kid in 2007, moved to Africa some time after 2009.
He has work experience pre degree but since getting the Masters it seems he's only gone the house husband route.
January 13th, 2018 7:31am
This thread has detailed.
January 13th, 2018 8:59am
January 13th, 2018 10:20am
When Idiot enters a thread it becomes a shithole.
Back to OP:
Rule #1 of negotiating - Whoever names a number first, loses.
If you say your salary expectations are $X, they will offer you min($X, $Y), where Y is the max salary they would pay.
It does save you time when $X>$Y.
I stopped being uptight about it and now say my salary expectations, or even current salary.
January 13th, 2018 10:53am
The problem is the prospective employer can say a salary range and say the actual amount depends on 'how good you are'.
In reality, the high figure is to solicit interest, has anyone ever been paid that much?
Can the employee say a salary range and say the actual amount depends on how good the job is?
In reality, the employer then knows how low you will go, why pay anything more?
January 13th, 2018 11:08am
Yeah, I saw that once. They had a salary range of $X-$Y. During the interview, they said I was the best candidate by a large margin and aced the interview. Then they offered $X, but I was already expecting $Y.
My current salary was $X, it was an obviously doomed startup, and they wanted on-call support, so it was an easy no.
January 13th, 2018 11:31am
Well, then state your salary as $X but say your availability starts at 30% more. Geez, this isn't rocket science.
January 13th, 2018 12:01pm
So, Io, how did that work out for you?
Tell us more.
January 13th, 2018 12:04pm
Actually, they didn't ask for current salary or salary expectations that time (I think).
January 13th, 2018 12:09pm
>> So, Io, how did that work out for you?
Great. I avoided wasting my time.
January 13th, 2018 12:25pm
The posted a range. Say $120 to $200K.
They gave very positive feedback and an offer.
The offer was $120K.
You declined and the process ended.
That's odd. Why didn't you give very positive feedback about them and suggest the top of range $200K?
January 13th, 2018 12:26pm
Are you asking me? You got the numbers wrong. The range was $100k-$120k and the offer was $100k.
The did re-offer $120k, but I still declined because:
- It was an obviously doomed startup.
- They were asking for on-call support.
- I got a bad vibe from the other people working there. The CEO wanted to hire me, but nobody else seemed interested.
January 13th, 2018 12:50pm
Okay that makes more sense
“My current salary was $X, it was an obviously doomed startup, and they wanted on-call support, so it was an easy no.”
left me believing they stuck to the bottom of the range.
January 13th, 2018 1:45pm
It just seemed weird that they would offer the bottom of their range on the first try.
For me, the only times I negotiated successfully, was when the job had obvious red flags and I balked and switching from one shithole into a bigger shithole.
January 13th, 2018 1:48pm
>> The did re-offer $120k, but I still declined because [...]
>> It just seemed weird that they would offer the bottom of their range on the first try.
Perhaps it'd be even more awkward to start at the high figure then keep cutting down?
"We're willing to give you $240k."
"Come on, that's too much!"
"Well, OK, $120k."
"That's more like it but I gotta tell you I live in a low cost area and saved a serious amount of cash during the last 20 years."
"Geez, you're squeezing our balls here... $60k, last offer."
January 13th, 2018 2:20pm
It's probably best to lie about your existing salary, everyone else's CV is mostly fiction so you are going to loose out by not following the trend.
January 14th, 2018 11:09am
That's so sad, that an honest person has a huge competitive disadvantage compared to liars.
January 14th, 2018 11:46am
Like dating sites...
Lots of blondes (way more than 4%)
Guys are 2" taller (on average)
January 14th, 2018 12:33pm
Well, she can be died blonde. No issue there.
January 14th, 2018 1:16pm
January 14th, 2018 2:35pm