RIP Philo

Software development is an industry of a lot of bullshit

Whatever is cool today will be yesterday's garbage tomorrow. Every new shiny thing is embraced and spoken about as the next "silver bullet". People spend a good bit of time just talking out of their asses.

In addition to that, developers are a commodity at this point. If you're not 100% happy with someone you unplug them and then find someone else with the exact skillset and plug them in. I think that the creativity side is lost now. Most just code the way they're told to code and discovery and creativity get lost in the shuffle. There's typically some "genius" that's in charge of the technical side of things and he got there by chasing the "new shiny" which makes him appear smart but he leaves an ocean of shit in his wave (previous jobs). You're not to think but to do things his way because he's the on-site genius.

A few things to take away from this:
1) If you don't do things his way and shit goes tits up or you hit a bump or snag then you'll be lambasted for not doing things his way.
2) If you do things his way and shit goes tits up or you hit a bump or snag then, for some bizarre reason, the genius gets away with it.

I've seen this more and more over the last 20 years.

Add to that the bullshit of hiring you, which I've touched on before. You'll get some hiring requirement like: Full Stack Developer
This is:
- HTML
- CSS
- JavaScript
- a backend language (Java, Node.js, Go, etc.)
- Database: SQL/noSQL depending on their mood

They expect you to know all of this shit through and through. From doing what would amount to "full stack" development for close to 15 years, it's unlikely you're going to know all of that shit through and through. You're going to work on JS for a while and get really good at that then you'll go to HTML/CSS and get really good at that while your JS starts to kind of fade into the past and then you'll be hitting the DB hard with SQL and stored procedures and somewhere in there you're doing some middleware bits in Java, Node.js, etc.

Unless you live, eat, and breathe this stuff (no other life or interests outside of being "full stack developer") then each of these skill will bubble up as needed but switching to the next will be a bit of a setback. When you interview, though, they're going to want you to be a good 8-10 on each of these skills at that particular time.

They don't want to know that you've done this or can do it, they want to know that you know what they know at that particular time. If you've been doing Java for 20 years and can't answer a particular question off of the top of your head OR you answer it correctly / spoke intelligently about it but it wasn't the exact answer they were looking for then: You obviously don't know Java  :roll:

I'll say this to you if you're thinking about entering the software development realm: Don't unless you really, really love it. If you have any other interests then go pursue those as this is a fairly idiotic industry (and you wouldn't think that - you'd think it'd be logical).

The shit people try to put together to make their resumes better - it just blows my mind (stuff that doesn't belong together and ends up being some shit someone else has to maintain but the original guy's resume looks really good).

I've been doing this shit since I was about 8-10yo (obviously not a career -but that's about when I learned to program) and I'm coming up on 50. (nearly 30 years of doing it as a career). It's kind of a shitty profession if you actually want to make something good that will last.

If you're happy making something that'll barely run for 2 years while they start gearing up the replacement, then it may be your kind of gig.
Permalink Joe 
May 14th, 2018 1:07am
>> A few things to take away from this:
>> 1) If you don't do things his way and shit goes tits up or you hit a bump or snag then you'll be lambasted for not doing things his way.
>> 2) If you do things his way and shit goes tits up or you hit a bump or snag then, for some bizarre reason, the genius gets away with it.

In case #2 he gets away because it's still your fault (afterall you wrote the code) for not correctly using the bizarre and arcane object oriented framework and domain specific language he invented, along with configuration files, hardcoded tweaks and managing the IT infrastructure so some microservices are proxied to some servers running on a very specific version of Linux.

And the reason for #1 is because imagine the terror if he finds himself in place #2 instead.

>> In addition to that, developers are a commodity at this point.

That's the root problem. Assembly line workers used to be a commodity too but I get the feeling they weren't bumping into situations like #1 and #2 above.
Permalink Io 
May 14th, 2018 3:51am
>>In addition to that, developers are a commodity at this point.

This is changing, the industry is getting so fragmented with different technologies, stacks, platform, SASS, IAAS, PAAS and and contender services (not to mention the Bigdata Pokemon and all the AI hype) its impossible to keep up or to find anyone who has.

Half these technologies are not even 2 years old..

It's also impossible to hire any Sr level person, and projects are going to shit. Corporations are trying to retain there staff and don't even know what to retain them in, meanwhile the staff a getting increasingly disgruntled. Working longer hours, and getting blasted when they can't get some immature half backed franken-stack working together right. 

The worst part, this shit an't ending any time soon.
Permalink Morons 
May 14th, 2018 7:42am
What is killing this industry is the horde of fresh grads who embrace any buzz-word technology du jour and worship it without any understanding of its capabilities nor limits.

These folks are also so vocal that they give life and credibility to shitty rebranded old ideas.

The marketers and the dollar suckers use them to justify new spendings and create a momentum around what the horde has elected as the best invention of mankind.

Investments, conferences, books, and merchandising will follow.

The horde will feel good for a while. Soon after, when the fad is about to be discovered by the market, the process will be restarted with another old idea.

Who benefits from hyped technologies? The likes of O'Reilly, the VC managers, the so called strategeists, HR firms, and the C suite minority.
Permalink Random Lurker 
May 14th, 2018 8:14am
Let me put my $.02 in on this thread...

Say what you want about the software industry, but it is the BEST industry in the world for developing the mind. I don't want to focus on this aspect of the job too much, but if you want to learn HOW to critically think, then software development is for you.....I know of no other job where the development of critical thinking skills is more apparent than software engineering....being a professional Chess Master might run a close second....

With regard to the complaints expressed in the software industry, I couldn't agree more with most of the comments previously made in this thread. However, instead of whining and complaining, focus on the solution, not the problem. One solution is to be a big fish in a small pond...that is to say, pursue a software engineering job for a firm that employs 20 people or less. If successfully pursued, I suspect that many of the grievances expressed in this thread would fade.

Another solution is to work for a START-UP company where there is little to no established rules on the hows or whats of software. Be a catalyst in moving your own influences within these new business types. As a software developer, I'm currently working with 2 start-up companies for many of the reasons expressed in this thread. I am finding this work to be quite satisfying.

Ultimately, I think software engineers are going to have to start thinking and being more entrepreneurial if they want to maintain a level of control and creativity in their working lives. If not, you will be a cog in a business wheel that attempts, for all the reasons outlined in this thread, to use Taylorism as the prima facie source of scientific management, the ultimate result of which will be failed software projects and disgruntled software devs. You can wax poetic all you want about what COULD or SHOULD be in the software industry today but unless you start taking action to initiate SOLUTIONS you are nothing more than a passive rube working within the mediocrity machine that today defines the software industry.
Permalink Brice Richard 
May 14th, 2018 8:46am
>>big fish in a small pond

This is the way to go, market yourself as THE expert in a Niche. With so many technologies out nowadays its easier then ever to be world class as something.

Startups, simply don't pay well.
Permalink Morons 
May 14th, 2018 9:09am
>>Who benefits from hyped technologies? The likes of O'Reilly, the VC managers, the so called strategeists, HR firms, and the C suite minority.

The may benefit from it, but they are not the ones pushing it.
Permalink Morons 
May 14th, 2018 9:10am
>> The may benefit from it, but they are not the ones pushing it.

The Russians were using the technique a century ago already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
Permalink Io 
May 14th, 2018 9:23am
Joe, if you are so unhappy, go find something else to do.

I don't see the crap you are talking about. 

Even if it is common, you are welcome to become a plumber or a mechanic. Or go freeze in the cold on a winter construction site.

I don't have time for cry babies.
Permalink Legion 
May 14th, 2018 9:49am
I agree with Brice. Take advantage of the situation and play the games. If they want to use 20+ frameworks, that's great for you since they will need 20 people who know these frameworks to fix it. It is all about transactions and think about your cash flow.
Permalink WildRiverGhost 
May 14th, 2018 9:54am
>> Legion: Joe, if you are so unhappy, go find something else to do.
>> You are welcome to become a plumber or a mechanic. Or go freeze in the cold on a winter construction site.

If everyone reacted this way when someone is pointing out a VALID flaw in the current state of the art, we'd have situations like this:

Roman guy sitting on a public latrine, to another: "You know, Marius, this whole thing of wiping our butts with a reusable sponge soaked in vinegar is kind of gross".
Marius: "Shut up you whiny Fabianus. If you don't like the Roman way you are welcome to be a German and wipe your ass with your bare hands!"

If Legion had it his way, we would have never invented the toilet paper!

"But Legion, wiping our ass with toilet paper, with a lot of fecal matter thinly spread on the nearby buttocks and drying there and at least a quarter of a gram ending up on our underpants is kind of gross!".
"Shut up you whiny snowflake Joe, if you don't like it you are free to wipe your ass with a sponge soaked in vinegar, and share it with the other COT members!"
Permalink Io 
May 14th, 2018 1:32pm
+1 Io
Permalink Bob Baden 
May 14th, 2018 1:37pm
LOL, Io. Can you tell me how to use the bidet?
Permalink DrNo 
May 14th, 2018 1:41pm
https://www.bidet.org/pages/how-to-use-a-bidet
Permalink DataBot 
May 14th, 2018 1:50pm
So,  it's hygiene then?  Toilet paper is the answer for the software development industry.

Essentially you have a lot of mundane crap plated in all manner of high-quality, expensive gold and jewels.

But what is the alternative?  Everything is distributed, hap-hazard,  disowned, abandoned, legacy,  nothing is perfect,  and it's on your plate,  because of this or that other stupid half-baked reason.  You only have your own standards,  the business doesn't pay for code quality and they aren't interested in the status of your code.
Permalink gold-encrusted-turds 
May 14th, 2018 1:53pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRL0-JQk-Qg
Permalink more-filth-and-crap 
May 14th, 2018 2:40pm
+731 Io

I MUST HAVE MORE HYPOTHETICAL ROMAN CONVERSATIONS.
Permalink Reality Check 
May 14th, 2018 4:36pm
It's like someone says "I JUST DISCOVERED SANDPAPER IS THE BEST FOR WIPING YOURSELF!  USE MY OPEN SOURCE SANDPAPER!  IF IT DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, THAT'S BECAUSE YOU NEED TO BUY MY $$$$$ CONSULTING SERVICES TO SHOW YOU HOW TO USE IT CORRECTLY!"

and then everyone is using sandpaper.
Permalink Send private email FSK 
May 14th, 2018 6:33pm
Legion is that kind of shitty guy who makes the situation never get better.

Just works in the stupidest worst way possible and then shits on anyone who looks for even the slightest improvement. 

Fuck Legion.
Permalink Ruseman 
May 14th, 2018 6:38pm
+1 Ruseman

Legion is a SHIT HEAD
Permalink President of the Brice Fan Club 
May 16th, 2018 9:45am

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other topics: May, 2018 Other topics: May, 2018 Recent topics Recent topics