RIP Philo

Father arrested for protecting his daughter

A man in Germany who struck a drunken immigrant from Eritrea when he was groping his daughter is being charged with assault.
Permalink Chris Escobar 
October 9th, 2018 1:45pm
Pretty typical with EU laws: if you discover someone robbing your house in the middle of the night, you will be charged of assault if you beat him or simply threaten him.
Permalink Random Lurker 
October 10th, 2018 3:27am
Some US states work that way, others don't. In the US not only have people been put in jail for defending themselves against burglars, but it's not uncommon in civil courts that a burglar who slips and falls on a toy in your house, or who falls down the stairs, files a lawsuit against your homeowners insurance for the injuries, and is paid out handsomely.
Permalink McCain's Tumor 
October 10th, 2018 4:47am
> Some US states work that way, others don't.

I have always thought that the US was governed by a "you can defend yourself and properties" mantra. I am a bit shocked to learn today that this is not always the case.

Out of curiosity, which states work that way?
Permalink Random Lurker 
October 10th, 2018 5:12am
Nice map here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

> A stand-your-ground law (sometimes called "line in the sand" or "no duty to retreat" law) establishes a right by which a person may defend one's self or others (right of self-defense) against threats or perceived threats, even to the point of applying lethal force, regardless of whether safely retreating from the situation might have been possible. Such a law typically states that an individual has no duty to retreat from any place where they have a lawful right to be, and that they may use any level of force if they reasonably believe the threat rises to the level of being an imminent and immediate threat of serious bodily harm and/or death.


> The castle doctrine is a common law doctrine stating that persons have no duty to retreat in their home, or "castle", and may use reasonable force, including deadly force, to defend their property, person, or another. Outside of the abode, however, a person has a duty to retreat, if possible, before using deadly force.
Permalink George Wormely Innocent 
October 10th, 2018 5:42am
Generally with castle law the idea is it's the middle of the night and you realize an intruder is in your house. You can shoot him dead without asking him to leave or verifying that he is armed. The idea is that if a stranger is in your house at night, you can legally presume they are there to do you harm and preemptively act in self defense.

Now you can't do that outside your house, or in broad daylight to the repairman you hired and allowed in.

There's also been some cases where the teen daughter's boyfriend had snuck in and was going to the kitchen to get a glass of water. Dad shoots him. Castle doctrine says dad is not prosecuted. So in castle states you have to be careful. Generally burglars know that in these states, they can be killed robbing homes, and this is supposedly a deterrent.

So outside your house without a stand your ground law you have a duty to try to retreat if someone's attacking you. With the law you have no such duty, if someone's attacking you you have the choice of defending yourself using deadly force instead of trying to escape.

The two laws are totally different legal principles. Some states have both, some have neither, some have one. Also each state has variations on the wording of these laws.

Generally these laws give local sheriffs tools to be able to say "We are not charging this guy with a crime." so they don't have to waste time with a trial that the jury would definitely acquit on.
Permalink McCain's Tumor 
October 10th, 2018 7:39am
Outsiders are always saying "But I thought in the States..."

There's 50 States plus various territories and special districts. Each is a sovereign entity with its own laws. Murder, rape, theft, burglary, self defense, all these are handled in state courts.

There's also federal crimes and courts. So that handles terrorists, mass murderers, bank fraud, and crimes that take place among states but not within them, such as bringing a minor across a state line without permission of the guardian, mail fraud, and refusing to serve a black person despite your restaurant serving pickles from a jar with the glass made in a different state (actual case).
Permalink McCain's Tumor 
October 10th, 2018 7:42am
Thanks for the details and the explanations.

> Outsiders are always saying "But I thought in the States..."

I am aware that every state is sovereign and has its laws. But I always thought that there was no differences between states when it comes to this specific topic.
Permalink Random Lurker 
October 10th, 2018 8:46am

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