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MTV color barrier

Michael broke the color barrier on MTV back in the 80s.

Some of you have never lived in a time where there was a color barrier to anything.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 3rd, 2009 10:01pm
Muppet will say:

"And some of you never left the 80's"

Not understanding the reality of having to try to understand such a world and grow up in it.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 3rd, 2009 10:02pm
They integrated my school system when I was in 2nd grade.

We kids had no issues -- it was the parents who were freaking out.
Permalink xampl 
July 3rd, 2009 10:04pm
There were color barriers, but music is one field where color was not a barrier, and never was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEu8DrO9PbY

I'm not sure what that means, but it was so.
Permalink bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2009 10:19pm
Curious, and fascinating.
Permalink bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2009 10:28pm
Probably has a lot to do with why Michael is the biggest star of my generation.  I think younger people don't care as much because not only was he in decline, but they weren't "there" when "it" happened.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 3rd, 2009 10:53pm
Yea, Michael appealed to all races and many different countries.  I was talking to the Indians and they loved the guy.

His music is just good music.  Most people on the planet sincerely enjoyed it.  He kind of had his one genre or R&B Pop.

With Michael, I think people weren't just listening to colored people music.  They were just listening to amazing sounds.  For example, if you are listening to Barry White or Luther Vandross.  They seem to target black audiences .  With Michel, if you go to a Michael Jackson concert, there will be a good mix of people.

And sure he wasn't the only one, some honorable mentions

1. James Brown
2. Lionel Richie
3. Earth Wind and Fire
4. Janet Jackson

------

"There were color barriers, but music is one field where color was not a barrier, and never was: "

What a horrible rebuttal.  So you picked a black person singing stuff and that somehow means there were no color barriers in music?  wtf.
Permalink Dead Son 
July 3rd, 2009 11:00pm
I think we can add Stevie Wonder.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 3rd, 2009 11:02pm
I just picked one example, but there were loads. It is generally acknowledged that black people shaped and formed modern American music with the history of jazz and blues and soul. Maybe it was a ghetto that was the only outlet with so many other avenues being blocked, but it was one arena where black artists have always been prominent.
Permalink bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2009 11:11pm
omg. How woefully ignorant you are, which is fine, I can be too, but at least I admit when I am.  Good grief.  You just can't admit you have no clue about this topic.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 3rd, 2009 11:13pm
Well go ahead then, educate me.
Permalink bon vivant 
July 3rd, 2009 11:14pm
"Michael broke the color barrier on MTV back in the 80s."

Considering that MTV came about in the 80s this whole "Michael broke the color barrier on MTV" seems quite odd to me.  Not to mention that MJ was on major network TV for years and years and years prior.

Am I confused?  :-(
Permalink * 
July 4th, 2009 12:14am
mtv was rock and roll.

jackson was crossover pop, that was wicked crazy insane popular.

i think mtv was not "racist", they were simply exploiting the mainstream 18-34 target audience. and by coincidence, during that same time, mj happened to make major headway in that crowd.

to call mtv racist, or to imply there was a 'color barrier', really takes away from mj's accomplishments: wide mainstream acceptance of a performer who is not rock and roll, on a rock and roll inspired and dominated platform.

the counter to the "mtv color barrier" claim: was eminem breaking color barriers on BET? ha.
Permalink argv[0] 
July 4th, 2009 1:30am
"music is one field where color was not a barrier, and never was"

This just proves you know nothing about the history of music.

----

When "That's All Right" was played, many listeners were sure Presley must be black, prompting white disc-jockeys to ignore his Sun singles. However, black disc-jockeys did not want anything to do with any record they knew was made by a white man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#cite_ref-101

Rhythm & Business: The Political Economy of Black Music

p56: While they have been pioneers in blazing new musical trails, their music has often been copied by those who have gone on to greater wealth and prestige than their originators.

Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Fats Domino, Otis Redding, James Brown, Ray Charles, and others ushered in the era of rock and roll that helped create white superstars such as Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, and the Beatles.

p59: Accounting for 25 -30% of the revenue generated by the record industry,and returning some 11.4% to the industry in terms of its revenues, they receive only a minuscule proportion of its financial benefits.

p61: It seems that once a black performer has achieved coveted crossover status, one of his first acts is to scale down ties to black roots ... Black is no longer good enough. They prettify it up with high-sounding euphemisms like "I don't see color" and "I make universal music," but the net results remain the same."

p77 CBS had reverted to the practice of perceiving black artists as creators of singles,not albums. Gaps as long as two months were allowed to elapse between the release of a single and that of the album on which the song was featured.

black radio listeners are reduced to auditioning records geared for white audiences.

p79: In their desire to remedy the "almost total indifference" on the part of the major record labels toward black music, CBS ignored virtually everything other than the profitability of music made and purchased by people of color.

http://books.google.com/books?id=TYGpETIiY-YC&lpg=PA295&ots=hOuw21_Zav&dq=black%20recording%20artists%20paid&pg=PA51

The "Chitlin' Circuit" was the collective name given to the string of performance venues throughout the eastern and southern United States that were safe and acceptable for African American musicians, comedians, and other entertainers to perform at during the age of racial segregation in the United States (from at least the late 1800s through the 1960s). The name derives from the soul food item chitterlings (stewed pig intestines).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitlin%27_circuit

The Chitlin' Circuit was a string of music venues in the South that sold chitlins' and other soul food dishes. In the late 50's and early 60's these tours were crucial to Black artists like B.B. King, Solomon Burke, James Brown, and Jackie Wilson to name a few. Because there was no media coverage for these artists, the Chitlin' Circuit was the only way to perform for their fans.

Even among Hendrix fans, there are those who don't know that before he became famous he played with some of the top R&B and Blues acts in the world, bumped elbows with Rock and Roll legends, and witnessed as well as participated in the birth of an international musical evolution. The lessons he learned were firsthand. While most musicians like Eric Clapton and a host of other guitarists got their education from hours of copying licks and voraciously listening to records of their heroes, Jimi Hendrix walked among these heroes and was one of them.

http://www.soul-patrol.com/funk/jh_chitlin.htm

The blatant racism that ran rampant in our society completely gave white artists all the credit, although eventually many of these black artists got the recognition they deserved later in their career or, unfortunately, after their death.

music producers would hear a recording being made or done by a black artist, find a white artist or group to record that same song, and credit the white artist or group as the original artist(s) of that particular song or songs, without giving any recognition or credit to the black artist who first recorded the song.

This music was disguised and promoted as someone else’s song. ... white artists would not only receive recognition for black artists’ songs but would also receive all the money, royalties, and fame from the song or songs

http://www.loti.com/fifties_music/African_American_influence_in_Rock_and_Roll.htm

Big Mama Thornton recorded “Hound Dog” in 1953.

It sold 2 million copies.

She received $500 in royalties.

In 1956, Elvis Presley recorded his version of Big Mama’s “Hound Dog.” It is one of Elvis’s most famous songs, yet the thievery continued as he gave her no credit, and of course there were no publishing checks sent to her mailbox.

“Disc jockeys at white radio stations played the songs of Elvis, The Beatles and others as if they were originals.

As a result, songs like Pat Boone’s version of “Tutti-Frutti” became a hit, instead of Little Richard’s original, and Bill Haley’s cover of the first rock ‘n’ roll song “Rocket 88” became just as popular as the original by Jackie Brenston and the Ike Turner band.”

http://www.whudat.com/newsblurbs/more/jill_scotts_new_album_the_real_thing_and_big_mama_thornton_168052107/

Intellectual Property and Information Wealth: Issues and Practices in the Digital Age

Early Black sound recording artists were at first excluded from the recording industry, and then relegated to segregated "race record" divisions of record companies. There, artists such as Bessie Smith, the legendary "Empress of the Blues," were subject to fraudulent and unconscionable contracts that deprived Black artists of royalties - one of the prime benefits of copyright ownership. The industry routinely deprived Black artists of the two fundamental predicates of intellectual property protection - credit and compensation.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bnW8ypT9_pIC&pg=PA387&lpg=PA387&dq=%22black+artists%22+royalties&source=bl&ots=lUAbkeiL2P&sig=YyJoz1pZ-FgGXPHvGuJJ_f1vMUs&hl=en&ei=LP1OSuz0IdWetgeYrNyhBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

etc.
Permalink A. A. Hatt 
July 4th, 2009 3:11am
The issues of black people is so boring.
Permalink Dead Son 
July 4th, 2009 3:19am
you mean they're like... completely black?
like... you can't see them in the dark?
Permalink sierra mist 
July 4th, 2009 3:28am
It's true, you can't see them in the dark!

Also, when I suspect someone is a vampire I stake them through the heart. They all died, so I'm sure I've never been wrong!
Permalink A. A. Hatt 
July 4th, 2009 3:35am
oooh...i get it, black people are vampires...
Permalink sierra mist 
July 4th, 2009 3:38am
That would certainly explain why you can't see them on TV.
Permalink A. A. Hatt 
July 4th, 2009 3:51am
certain channels you can't (cmt, what else...hmmm...oh, of course, the fox..)
Permalink sierra mist 
July 4th, 2009 4:02am
Don't forget that American "black" music had many influences.  Such as the folk music brought to the US be Celtic peoples.  American music in general whether it is Country, Blues, Folk, Rock, etc. get most of their influences from West Africa and Ireland/Scotland.  There have been some very interesting documentaries on this.  Both groups of people had complementary rythms and styles.

This goes for dancing too.  For example tap and jazz dancing can be directly traced back to West African dancing and Celtic dancing and clogging.
Permalink JustSayN 
July 4th, 2009 1:44pm
Interstingly the gang mentality that is found in commericialized stereotypes of inner city Blacks can also be traced back to the celtic people that moved to the US.  A lot of large extended clans/families moved to the South.  This is where you get all the stories about family feudes.

One the earliest uses of the term "whigger" was as derogatory term for the American Irish.
Permalink CantWeAllJustGetAlong 
July 4th, 2009 2:01pm
The difference being that blacks were respectable enough to be employed as household staff and laborers where there might be customer contact.

The notion of a color barrier is an over simplification of the matter.  Last I checked, Count Bassie and Duke Ellington has always been pretty respected acts, and I seem to recall that neither of them suffered from fair skin (unless you want to contend that they were actually Jewish and just passin' as black).

The whole Elvis thing, let's not try to paint him as drawing from mostly black influences.  His first two hits were songs that Bill Munroe gave him.  Last I checked (two minutes ago) Bill Munroe was white.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
July 5th, 2009 9:41am
Nice rationalization there, Clay.

I can't discuss this topic with white people because inevitably, you all dismiss facts because like the Holocaust, there is raging emotion about music.

I am never clicking on this thread again so I am not reading any response.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
July 5th, 2009 11:06am
> I am never clicking on this thread again so I am not reading any response.

Yes you will
Permalink Attila 
July 5th, 2009 11:28am
Ellington went to Europe to gain mainstream acceptance. Prior to that his music & most music was considered "that jungle music" that whites went to see if they wanted an "ethnic" experience, or that the college kids liked. Ellington fought long & hard to gain prestige for Jazz and you do him a great disservice by making it sound like success just fell into his lap.

One need only visit the Elvis wikipedia page to counter your other argument.

"On January 4, 1954, he cut a second acetate. At the time, Sun Records boss Sam Phillips was on the lookout for someone who could deliver a blend of black blues and boogie-woogie music; he thought it would be very popular among white people. ... During an interview on the [radio] show, Phillips asked Presley what high school he attended—to clarify Presley's color for listeners who assumed he must be black."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley#First_recordings_and_performances
Permalink A. A. Hatt 
July 5th, 2009 1:24pm

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