Nobody likes to be called a dummy by a dummy.

Israel jumps the shark

http://www.theage.com.au/world/more-than-10-killed-as-flotilla-stormed-says-israeli-army-20100531-wq8y.html

Can't see this being other than an utter PR disaster for the IDF and the government it serves.
Permalink trollop 
May 31st, 2010 3:10am
As usual nothing will happen.
Permalink 2 
May 31st, 2010 5:02am
I was watching about the My Lai Massacre last night, Vietnam War.  I always thought that this village had accidentally been napalmed or something, didn't realize soldiers went in there and massacred men, women, and children and lined them up in front of a ditch.

A lot of it is psychology, just like the one guy said, once one person fired a shot, it immediately started a chain reaction.  I don't know what it is about human nature.  It's best not to start something in the first place that isn't absolutely necessary, and even then you have to have the right people in place who have a strong sense of morality.
Permalink lorb 
May 31st, 2010 6:42am
Last week the ABC showed this account of a female Oz army Major who was shot up while serving as a UN observer in  southern Lebanon when the shit boiled over. Many of her colleagues were killed. She was severely wounded.

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/series/australian%20story

The second portion was shown on schedule earlier tonight.
Permalink trollop 
May 31st, 2010 7:28am
Not good, not good at all.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
May 31st, 2010 8:27am
we live in dark times.
Permalink eek 
May 31st, 2010 9:21am
Israel is a terrorist state. Netanyahu's own father brags about killing 100 Palestinians in one day!

Once a terrorist always a terrorist.
Permalink Jeorge 
May 31st, 2010 3:29pm
What does Lord Obama say about the event?

Now that the US has 2 proxy countries in the Middle East what's the point to feeding Israel billions and billions and billions of dollars every year?
Permalink Shazmo 
May 31st, 2010 3:33pm
Video of the incident, showing that the "peaceful activists" had grenades and other weapons that they were using to attack IDF forces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNQruNVwCaI

Anyone who isn't a halfwit dumbass can see here that the IDF response was justified.
Permalink see see 
May 31st, 2010 3:41pm
What were they doing on that ship on the open sea?

Attacking it, and now defenders are blamed?

That is the common logic of Israel over the years.
Permalink Attila 
May 31st, 2010 3:55pm
Interesting parts of the story:

1.  There were 6 ships.  Only on one of them was there armed resistance.  Why didn't the Israeli's kick-ass on the other 5, if that's what they wanted to do?  Current videos show the people on the ship using long poles as weapons, as well as having sling-shots.

2.  There were 9 Israeli's injured as well.

3.  The Israeli's have offered (and continue to state) that they'll move the Humanitarian Aid into Gaza, as soon as they've inspected it.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
May 31st, 2010 4:20pm
Come on dude, the people on the ship had entire BAGS full of round glass marbles without any sharp ends that they were attacking the soldiers who boarded their ship with.

Those marbles are very dangerous in the hands of a skilled marble shooter.
Permalink see see 
May 31st, 2010 4:35pm
Interesting -- apparently "Territorial Waters" only extend out 12 miles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
May 31st, 2010 4:44pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded

Apparently the defenders were wearing gas-masks, and were armed with metal poles just the right size to use as clubs.  Nasty.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
May 31st, 2010 5:10pm
From your link, "The contiguous zone is a band of water extending from the outer edge of the territorial sea to up to 24 nautical miles (44 km) from the baseline, within which a state can exert limited control for the purpose of preventing or punishing "infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial sea"."

This means the IDF had every right to board the ship, and seize it given that they were operating illegally in Israeli waters.
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 6:51pm
UK travel tips for Britons planning to enter Gaza from the sea.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/israel-occupied

We advise against all travel to Gaza (including the waters off Gaza).

If, despite this advice, you decide to travel to or remain in Gaza, you do so at your own risk. You should review your security arrangements and seek professional security advice on whether they are adequate.  The level of consular assistance we can provide in Gaza is extremely limited.

We also advise against all travel by sea to the coast of Gaza. We advise against any attempt to enter Gaza by sea, breaching the restrictions imposed by the Israeli navy. The Israeli Navy routinely patrol territorial waters and a contiguous zone and have fired warning shots across the bows of ships. We are also aware of a number of credible reports of Israeli Navy vessels firing into the sea around fishing vessels carrying foreign nationals and directing powerful water jets at such vessels. The Israelis have repeatedly stated that they will consider taking action to prevent any vessel from reaching Gaza.

If, despite this Travel Advice, you decide to travel to, or remain in, Gaza, you do so at your own risk.  You should review your security arrangements and seek professional security advice on whether they are adequate.  You should register with our Consular office in Gaza. The level of consular assistance we can provide is extremely limited.
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 6:55pm
2 members of Germany's parliament are missing after Israel's attack on the flotilla.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,697739,00.html

>An al-Jazeera journalist delivering a report before Israel cut communications said Israel fired at the vessel before boarding it. In one web posting, a Turkish television reporter on the boat cried out, "These savages are killing people here, please help" — a broadcast that ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

Turkey is ultra pissed off. We'll see how that plays out, and how much Obama is going to have to kiss Turkish ass to keep the conflict from going hot. To my understanding, most of Israel's oil comes via BTC pipeline in Turkey. The "peace accords" stated that if Irael's oil gets cut off, then the US will supply all of Israel's oil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Petroleum_Reserve#Emergency_sales_to_Israel
http://www.911omissionreport.com/israel_oil_guarantee.pdf 
http://giwersworld.org/911/oil/israel-oil.phtml

Trump card playable by Turkey - NATO Article 5:
>The 11 September attacks caused NATO to invoke Article 5 of the NATO Charter for the first time in its history. The Article says that an attack on any member shall be considered to be an attack on all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO
Permalink Peter 
May 31st, 2010 6:58pm
"2 members of Germany's parliament are missing"

Too bad they decided to commit an act of war by invading a sovereign nation.

Fuck Germany. Israel should have nuked them before in retaliation for the Holocaust.
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:10pm
"Israel fired at the vessel before boarding it"

Not what the video shows.
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:10pm
But... even if we do get a video, Israel is justified. If you invade another country's waters, their customs and/or military can stop you and board your ship. If you resist boarding in any way, they have a right to do whatever is necessary to stop you, including shelling your vessel and shooting the crew if necessary to stop the invasion into their territory.
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:11pm
If you doubt this in any way, please get your camera and attempt to entire US waters. As soon as you get near the contiguous zone, radio contact will be made asking you identity, that of your vessel, where you are coming from and what your plans are. If you receive directions, such as to turn around, and you do not follow them, it is an attack on the US for which you can legitimately be boarded, or sunk. If you resist, you will most likely be shot.

Go ahead and try entering the US and violently resist cooperation with customs and the coast guard. I await your videotape, and until you post it, you are full of shit to criticize Israel for doing the same.
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:14pm
"an attack on any member shall be considered to be an attack on all"

And since it is Turkey who attacked Israel, where does that leave NATO? Was the unprovoked attack on Israel by Turkey done with foreknowledge and consent of NATO allies?
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:16pm
And what if Israel finds raw materials for Katusha rockets in the ship's cargo?

The video clearly shows the Israeli soldiers being attacked with metal rods by people wearing gas-masks.  And that's on the sixth and last ship they boarded -- meaning they boarded 5 other vessels and took control of them without shooting, without beatings, and without injuries.  Only in this last ship were they attacked.

That, to me, indicates the argument "the Israeli's attacked first" is completely false.  Not to mention, if the Israeli's HAD been firing on the ship, there wouldn't have been those crowds of exposed defenders waiting for the soldiers as they rappelled down.

And if you look at the Google Map, apparently the Israeli's didn't try to stop the ships until after they turned directly toward Gaza.

I'll also note that the arms found (knives, pipes, gas-masks, sling-shots for heaven's sake, but NO firearms of any kind) seem to be calculated to be able to inflict fatalities, but also allow deniability "we had no guns!"

Frankly it looks a lot like the Palestinians trying to generate a PR disaster for the Israeli's.  I hope they don't succeed.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
May 31st, 2010 7:24pm
Well, Israel specifically told the ships they were welcome to make port at Ashdod port where customs could inspect the cargo, and everything that was permitted would be transferred to the Gaza strip. What happened next is Audrey Bomse, the Free Gaza Movement's legal advisor decided to refuse this offer because most of the aid they were bringing "Israel does not allow into Gaza".
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:35pm
In case that wasn't clear enough, their own legal advisor states that it is a shipment of prohibited contraband.

The other thing is the had grenades. What sort of development aid is grenades? That also shows how good the Turkish inspection was before they left port. But even if inspected when leaving, no country accepts that. If I show up at Los Angeles with a container shipment from North Korea, will they let me pass without inspection if I promise them "Comrade, this was all inspected before we left Pyongang and everything is fine, there is no need to open it."
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 7:38pm
Blockade running is by definition a risky business.

You go looking for trouble, if you find it, don't complain.
Permalink Not CC 
May 31st, 2010 9:12pm
Who shot who when, and where, and why, and what was (or wasn't) on the boats won't overtake the initial news wavefront.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/global-condemnation-of-israeli-raid-20100531-wrag.html

There'll be more ships to capitalise on this event.
Permalink trollop 
May 31st, 2010 10:27pm
Media loves a war. It sells newspapers. Newspaper editors are more amoral than Hitler in this regard since Hitler wasn't a cynical profiteer.

"SHOCK and outrage swept the globe last night after Israeli commandos stormed a flotilla of aid ships bound for Gaza" - Australian News Hitler/Editor

Let me fix that for you...

"SHOCK and outrage swept the globe last night after Israeli coast guard officials were attacked while boarding to inspect a flotilla of invasion ships bringing illicit contraband into Gaza."
Permalink CC is over there 
May 31st, 2010 11:22pm
I can't help but enjoy an immense schadenfreude by Israel's slow and deliberate act of committing suicide.
Permalink Uncle pussy 
June 1st, 2010 12:07am
The Turkish ship was apparently 130 miles offshore when it was attacked. It's straightforward piracy.
Permalink Send private email Stephen Jones 
June 1st, 2010 1:30pm
That's not what the Google-Maps shows.  Maybe it was 130 miles off-shore when the Israeli's began escorting it, but it was 20 miles off-shore when they stopped it.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
June 1st, 2010 1:44pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm

This shows the interception well over 100 miles offshore.
Permalink Send private email Stephen Jones 
June 1st, 2010 4:51pm
True.

But this one: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116970983657577589705.00048701e55af63586cc0&f=d&daddr=35.03485,28.68801+%4035.03485,28.68801&ll=35.817813,29.926758&spn=7.124687,16.479492&iwloc=00048795b3d2ecd5eabb5&source=embed

Shows that the "last message" was quite far out, but the "inteception" was quite close.

Of course, I don't know at this time what the truth is -- I hope it will be better established in time.
Permalink SaveTheHubble 
June 1st, 2010 5:27pm
Well now the US in the UN Security Council has (somewhat predictably) handed responsibility for investigation over to the Israelis we'll have to wait a bit for that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/israel-investigation-attack-gaza-flotilla-us
Permalink trollop 
June 1st, 2010 6:57pm

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