Sanding our assholes with 150 grit. Slowly. Lovingly.

Joel's humor is too subtle or hipocrisy is off the charts?

Your vote.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/

I'm thinking hipocrisy...
Permalink Send private email Wayne (AHA) 
September 1st, 2006 2:36am
...or perhaps joelonsoftware needs more traffic!
Permalink Send private email Wayne (AHA) 
September 1st, 2006 2:37am
Humor.

Though most people don't think so, like:
http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&entry=3334524807
Permalink Quartet 
September 1st, 2006 2:44am
*giggle*
Permalink Me 
September 1st, 2006 3:06am
Neither, he seriously needs to lay off the meth.
Permalink  
September 1st, 2006 3:53am
I thought it was a pretty good article. he made some good points and ending with an anecdote that indicated he understood that ultimately the best approach depends entirely on the specific situation.

some people really need to get a life.
Permalink worldsSmallestViolin 
September 1st, 2006 4:52am
I couldn't see much wrong with that article. Sound advice.
Permalink Colm 
September 1st, 2006 4:55am
I think it's an awful article, just rambling on and on and on; no longer about how smart Joel is as a genius programmer, cause we're all bored of that by now. Now he's a genius mindreader, knowing that shitloads of python/java/php/ruby fanboys will flame him if he doesn't pat them on the head.

If it wasn't daddy, there'd be no use even complaining about it.

The cliff notes:

* if you want to run a serious software business, it doesn't matter what technology you use, so long as it's mainstream. Java, .Net, Php and Python are mainstream.

* lisp, smalltalk and ruby  aren't mainstream no matter what all you smartypants might think, I'm muppet, eh. Joel and know everything better. (neither are c, c++, perl...)

* Fuck off! Ruby and lisp suck, Paul Graham isn't half as smart or gay as I am. Joel is entirely east coast baby. Did I mention ruby and smalltalk suck too? How do I know? I'm Joel. Your "quaint" little language might be the shits at MIT, but that doens't cut the mustard in New York City, we do industrial style programming here.

* So you programmed a DNA sequencer in OCAML as part of your dissertation, but that's not exactly a GoToMyPc clone now, is it.

* lisp is entirely irrelevant no matter what you say. DON'T USE IRRELEVANT NICHE LANGUAGES, ok?

* by the way, we use our own language that we wrote ourselves that has an incredibly cool, metro-urban name: WASABI. Don't do this yourselves, though, because you're just not as smart as we are. Anyway, it's totally mainstream, because we're REALLY successful...

* Did I mention that we have a bunch of interns who are way smarter than you, Bill Gates, Linux Torvalds, that Russian math dude and Bjarne Stroustroupe put together?

* Here at FogCreek, we have sooo much money that we buy books with the sole intention of throwing them away. That's how things are done in New York, but you wouldn't know that, would you?

* And that's just the first sentence.

As usual, the average length of a sentence is about 80 words. Sentences and paragraphs aren't really metrosexual. I bet you can get REALLY great sushi just around the corner from FogCreek AND you'll meet a crazy homeless transsexual singing Streisand tunes on the elevator.

  -nyc-tim
Permalink Send private email a2800276 
September 1st, 2006 8:02am
You actually READ that article and gleaned enough from it to call Joel a hypocrite?  The whole thing is a fluff piece dragged on WAAAAAAY too long.  I couldn't go more than a few paragraphs before my brain threatened to strangle me.

You guys REALLY need to get past this Joel shit.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 8:08am
And I'm sure he LOVES that you haven't.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 8:08am
And I bet he's proud of the level of maturity you display. What's to get over, we're just having fun.
  -tim
Permalink Send private email a2800276 
September 1st, 2006 8:11am
You guys are sycophantic about some irrelevant loudmouth's articles, and Joel, being a HUGE narcissist, is loving it.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 8:12am
for once, I agree with mupp. The Spolabi has long ago run out of material, and is coasting. Big time.
Permalink $-- 
September 1st, 2006 8:12am
>You guys are sycophantic about some irrelevant loudmouth's articles, and Joel, being a HUGE narcissist, is loving it.

Would you call me a sycophant of Joel's? I've criticized him loudly and publicly quite a few time in recent history, such that he once descended from the heavens to pronounce his disappointment that I had strayed from the flock.

Nonetheless, I think this is classic Joel, and is one of the best pieces he's put out in a while - It's simple, pragmatic, and fairly to the point.

Nonetheless I am amazed that Joel is willing to take on the-

-Ruby community, which is frothing at the mouth at this.

-Paul Graham fan club, which comprises about 95% of Reddit. The mild digs at Paul were incredibly surprizing, as Joel seemed to be a fan of Paul's, and has a close relationship to Paul's bastard child Reddit.

Kudos to Joel for having the balls.

Of course the Wasabi bit at the end was...odd.
Permalink Send private email Dennis Forbes 
September 1st, 2006 9:14am
You're sycophantic about criticizing him.  It's like going to the supermarket in the next town over once a week to tell the Produce Manager what a jerk he is, and then posting about it on the internet.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 9:16am
>You're sycophantic about criticizing him.

Right. Stick to your guns, moron. I just said that I agreed with him, and applaud his position. So I'm sycophantic about criticizing him...

You're an idiot.
Permalink Send private email Dennis Forbes 
September 1st, 2006 9:19am
I'm sorry, I should have said "critiquing" not "criticizing".

In any case you enjoy your little obsession, no need to get violent over it.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 9:21am
" such that he once descended from the heavens to pronounce his disappointment that I had strayed from the flock. "

When was that?  What did he say?
Permalink r 
September 1st, 2006 9:23am
>In any case you enjoy your little obsession, no need to get violent over it.

Um, there's like 6 threads on here about his article, so I went and read it, moron. I'm the obsesses one commenting about it an hour and a half after muppet did.

You're an idiot.
Permalink Send private email Dennis Forbes 
September 1st, 2006 9:25am
I think the most interesting point made about JoS was the "has anyone actually used Fogbugz" one.

Has anyone? Or seen anyone else use it?
Permalink $-- 
September 1st, 2006 9:26am
It's not as if, absent prompting, you wouldn't have piped up about it anyway.

You all, collectively (whichever 5 or 6 of you) are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too interested in what Joel has to say.  I think you all have a man-crush on the guy.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 9:26am
>It's not as if, absent prompting, you wouldn't have piped up about it anyway.

Here's the thing, muppet: Joel isn't some random guy with a blog -- instead he's a guy who writes something, it appears all over Reddit, much less frequently on Digg and Slashdot, and we have coworkers and peers who then reference it to us. When someone has that sort of influence (although it has greatly subsided), you can't just stick your head in the sand and cover your ears. You also don't have to look for it to find it slapping you in the face all day long.

But anyways, no I wouldn't have commented on this particular article. It's not really super insightful or new information, nor is it saying something retarded (like that idiotic piece about Dell/IBM). The only discussable piece is whether that Wasabi bit was serious or not...which is debatable.
Permalink Send private email Dennis Forbes 
September 1st, 2006 9:29am
The reason he has any influence or scope is that morons like you KEEP PAYING ATTENTION TO HIM.

Joel Spolsky is the Paris Hilton of software development.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 9:30am
"You're sycophantic about criticizing him."
Okay wait... I'm lost.

<Inigo Montoya>
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
</Inigo Montoya>
Permalink Send private email Jöhn Härën 
September 1st, 2006 9:50am
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+sycophantic

bootlicking: attempting to win favor from influential people by flattery

hehe
Permalink Send private email Locutus of Borg 
September 1st, 2006 9:51am
It's sycophantic in that it's a poorly veiled excuse to stay near him and keep talking about him.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 9:53am
IS there a word for "attempting to win someone's favour by criticising them"?

muppophantic?
Permalink $-- 
September 1st, 2006 9:54am
that's not what the word means muppet. you're plain wrong.
Permalink $-- 
September 1st, 2006 9:55am
Well I'll be the first one here to ever use a word incorrectly, so you've got me on that one.
Permalink Send private email muppet 
September 1st, 2006 9:56am
not saying that. just that you are using the wrong word ...
Permalink $-- 
September 1st, 2006 9:57am
That is what the word means, but as I don't read this forum, kissing my ass here isn't kssing my ass for real.
Permalink Joel Spolsky 
September 1st, 2006 9:57am
>The reason he has any influence or scope is that morons like you KEEP PAYING ATTENTION TO HIM.

Many of his earlier pieces are, quite simply, brilliant. They made valuable, informative points, doing so in an easy to read, humorous fashion. I pointed many people to many of those pieces, and think they're excellent reads today. The fundamental points were well known and obvious, but it really amplified their core concepts to many people.

His early influence was very well earned.

So that early momentum carried his influence through some terrible literary abortions, so if you're active in the industry you -can't help- but get faced by his thoughts. If you disagree with him, and someone says "Oh, but Joel says...", the general norm is to voice your disagreement.

This really isn't rocket science.

And anyways, you're so in love with Joel that you have his picture custom printed on your toilet paper.
Permalink Send private email Dennis Forbes 
September 1st, 2006 9:59am
>The reason he has any influence or scope is that morons like you KEEP PAYING ATTENTION TO HIM.

we were talking about muppet, right ... ?
Permalink $-- 
September 1st, 2006 10:00am
That wasabi bit can't be serious...

It could be, but Why?
Permalink Send private email JoC 
September 1st, 2006 10:01am
One of his more sane articles.

I can't disagree with a single point.
Permalink Send private email sharkfish 
September 1st, 2006 10:45am
>we were talking about muppet, right ... ?

Yeah, that's what I thought, but I didn't want to point it out because it would only encourage him

Nice going, jackass.
Permalink Colm 
September 1st, 2006 11:02am
The wasabi bit was definitely curious, because it's essentially exactly what he was criticizing in the entire rest of the article.  To the best of my knowledge September 1 isn't a big day for practical jokes, so it didn't make a lot of sense.

The earlier points made a lot of sense.  Even though my own preference is C programming, agree with his assertion that ISAPI applications written in C are a really bad idea.  I've seen it in action.  It was horrible.  Now CGI programs written in C, on the other hand, those are pretty straight forward affairs that give you huge amounts of flexibility.  Need to fix a bug?  Copy the new executable into place and it's good.
Permalink Send private email Clay Dowling 
September 1st, 2006 12:40pm
Hm ... I am starting to agree with muppet on this one.

The inclusion of the Wasabi joke is wicked and self-serving.
Permalink Rick Tsang 
September 1st, 2006 6:23pm

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